Tired of Politically Correct nonsense regarding black quarterbacks...

[TheChizo]

The other day, I was watching Stephen A. Smith on ESPN's "Quite Frankly." And he had three former NFL players, Eddie George, Everson Walls, And James Hasty. The question was posed regarding black QB's in college and why they are asked by NFL teams to switch positions or in some cases go Undrafted all together. Immediately all three guys basically implied that racism is the reason. I say RIDICULOUS. COME ON. I thought we're passed this type of playing the race card garbage. This is Politically Correct nonsense.

If you want to talk about this from an objective viewpoint, we can. Instead of throwing out allegations of racism, bigotry, etc.

Was racism the reason, Tim Chang (Asian American) from Hawaii U, who had the most passing yards, completions and touchdowns in Division 1A history went undrafted last year? Or was it racism that Eric Crouch (white) was not drafted as a QB? Or Matt Jones (white) converted to WR by Jaguars. If any of these players were black, it's very likely, this is the type of nonsense we would be hearing from the politically correct pundits gone crazy. I guess there aren't any white NFL starting RB's in the league because the NFL is racist towards white RB's??? Come on folks don't you think it's time we stop this type of talk??? I am not black, and I do have close black friends and we debate about this all the time.

Also, why is the NBA dominated by blacks? Is it racism that the NBA is predominantly black? I think the NBA should promote more of a diversity program like affirmative action and draft and sign more players from white/asian/hispanic backgrounds. I mean isn't this the logic that some people use in asking for a more diverse playing field, whether it's sports or the average workplace??? I think it's pure hypocrisy and stupidity.

So please answer the question, why don't we have more whites, asians or hispanics in the NBA or NFL? why is it predominantly black? You see my point? Maybe there are more qualified black players? And as far as the QB position is concerned, maybe there are more qualified white QB's? Why cant we just leave it at that?

And once again, why didn't Tim Chang from Hawaii Univ. who broke just about every College D1 record go Undrafted, is that racism? The more important question I would like to ask is why didn't the pundits like "Stephen A. Smith" and other black athletes bring it up? If Tim Chang was black wouldn't they have at least addressed it by saying something like "now why is that the leading QB in college history in just about every category, go undrafted? It smells of racism." I have a suspicion this is the type of rhetoric I would have heard from Stephen A. Smith and the black panel.

I know some who read this thread might be offended by what I said but my intention isn't to offend but to openly discuss this issue with other mature and informed fans, athletes, etc. And if some of you even hint at this thread being racist, than you are again playing the race card and don't have anything intelligent or wise to add.

[Niner'sFanatic]

:ohmy: It's African-American, not black. :nonono:

J/K :biggrin: I agree with pretty much everything you said. This needs to stop. There's plenty of other black players on any sports team so it's not racism. There's no stereotype that says blacks can't throw. Many of the fast QB's who are converted to the WR are converted for a reason. They might have been succesful in college football because they relied on their feet but didn't have the best arm but in the NFL, you need more than just speed in the QB position. It all depends on their ability to play, nothing more...

[Eric 80]

Wasn't the first QB drafted African American?

[daredevil2-5]

Although I didn't need to read that essay (doing a research paper now :() I agree with your point. The race card is played too often and its really loss credibility in many sports.

[jay_1699]

I think the real problem regarding blacks at QB is the exploitation of gifted black athletes at the college level. Vick should not be a QB, nor should vince young (and many, many other black QBs)...seems like every black athlete with a decent arm is converted to QB because running works in college more then passing. In the end, these players become sub-par QB's (at best) and lack the experience to properly transition to other positions in the NFL.

I think vick averaged like 8 passes per game in college and was drafted as the #1 QB...it's simply retarded imo.

I think college coaches see a black QB and think, "well if he can't run a 4.4 40 then he should play a different position".....where are the warren moon type QB's in college? If you ask me, that's the real problem.

[Eric 80]

Large Ant, I love your signature line.

[jay_1699]

This is my favorite point in any argument about race. You can almost guarantee you'll hear it from any non-black person that starts talking about black people. The consistency of this phenomenon always makes me laugh when I hear/read it.

How about I write a big ol' essay on people of a different background than you having a different perspective that isn't necessarily bull****** just because you don't agree with it? Or maybe I could write one on where the buttons are on your remote that allow you to change the channel?

Were you this passionate when Rush Limbaugh made his famous comment? Or is it just when Stephen A. Smith does it?


I'm not racist, I have a colored TV.

[TheChizo]

Large Ant, than what do you want me to say?? That I don't have black friends? I put that statment in there to inform the readers that I have this arguement with "black friends." Again, that's not the point of this thread. And very typical of those who side with the politically correct (and I don't know if you are black, politically correct, etc) on these types of issues.

You are not talking about my main points on this issue but instead resort to attacking the messenger regarding some side note. Why don't you answer some of my Q's??? I suppose you agree with Stephen A Smith? If so, than tell me why? Elaborate on your argument instead of criticizing me and not staying the course. And you know, though I didn't agree with entirely what Rush said, I can agree with the statement that certain black QB's are overrated.

You brought up the argument so let's talk about it. Which black QB outside of Doug Williams with Redskins has won a championship?? I'm not knocking black QB's. I am stating facts. And lets face it, the Redskins didn't win the Championship because Doug Williams was some great QB. They had a great defense and a great running game for that one game. THE RB was the MVP of that Superbowl. I think it was Timmy Smith. What other black QB has taken his team to the superbowl? And even today, of all the QB's available who would you chose to start a team?? I'd say, Tom Brady, Carlson Palmer, Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, Drew Breese, are all better than the best black QB.

Tom Brady ran circles around Donovan McNabb in the super bowl two years ago. Even TO and few of his teamates, acknowledged that. But again, i guess everything that i am saying is probably said with some ulterior motive to "bring down" the black man??

Just answer a couple of questions Ant.........why is the NBA dominated by blacks? Why don't we have more non blacks as recievers, corners, RB's in football. And why don't we have more non blacks period in basketball? Please answer that question?? Is it racism?

[TerrellOwns]

i dont see racism in sports, the BPA is picked no matter what race they are.

[UCBLaxPlayer]

seriously i thought we were past this kinda petty race discussion.

im not saying racism doesnt exist because it definitely does unfortunately.

however, why a sport is dominanted by a particular race has nothing to do with racial discrimination. BPA gets to play and it's simple as that, whether he's black, white, asian, blue, green, or purple.

That's why I disagree with the whole "minority" interviewing with coaching. It's a slap in the face to minorities. Instead of being viewed as serious candidates for the job, they're just the "token" interview and being used so that the team doesnt get a slap on the wrist from the league.

And I think it was Ant/Sea Chicken who said it best. Fans care about the color jersey they're wearing, not their skin color.

on the issue of timmy chang, an asian american, he didnt get drafted betcause he played in a system that threw much mucho times. he must have threw the ball 50-60 times a game. How do you know he just played ina system with a high percentage of yards, TD's, etc? He also is the NCAA league leader in interceptions.

Why arent more Asian Americans in sports? Cuz for the most part, we just arent built to play sports. You can deny it, but it's true. I love sports, played them all my life. I love football with a passion. Nothing gets me higher than playing it and i have a fierce passion for it. However, there's a limit to how strong and fast I can get... and I just dont have the size. And that's important, no matter what you say. I'm not going to blame other people for being able to continue football in college on racism.

[TheChizo]

Ant...again, I am laughing. Because you are the one who chose to turn this into a race issue. You're original post had nothing to do with the debate itself but rather you resorted to casually manipulating the arguement into "its funny when I hear others talk about black people and it always starts with I'm not black but I have black friends." What were you trying to imply?? That I made that statement to defend my integrity?? Come on man. Laughing again. You see how you somehow took this argument in a different direction?

And in your second thread you point out that "my true colors" shown when I compared white to black QB's. On the contrary, in your attempt to clump me with Rush Limbaugh whom you brought up, I was only acknowledging a PART of what Rush said. The part about certain black QB's like Donovan McNabb being over rated. And I agreed 100%. He is over rated. The media made him out to be a top two or three QB. And in my view, he clearly isn't. He makes too many mistakes in crucial situations. That's all I am saying. I guess, unless I acknowledge that Donovan is a top three QB, I am racist? You are hilarious ANT. I guess nowadays I can't say a thing or make an observation without it being construed as racist? Is it true or not true? And if I was a racist, which no doubt, you are cleverly implying. I would have said something like ..............black QB's are too stupid to play in the NFL. That would be a bigoted statment. But I that isn't close to what I said. Once again, let me remind you Ant, you took this arguement in a completely diff direction. Just stay with the topic. Isn't that what is commonly refered to in politics as "character assination?" Without actually calling me a racist, you have constructed your statements to infer that I have some hidden agenda. NO ANT, my only frustration is towards Politically Correct people like you who continue to try to intimidate, shut down, belittle the average guy like myself who may not agree with everything the politically correct intolerant guy like yourself would have me to believe. But till this day, it's still amusing and I get a kick out of it.

Like I said, people like you are always going off on some tangent and rarely stick to the argument. Suggesting/implying I have some other motive. LOL. And yes I am so sensitive, I have to reply to your ignorance. But again all done with a cordial smile. Sorry Ant but I'm not anymore sensitive to this arguement than say.....YOU.

[BleedinRed&Gold]

Part of the fundamental basis for statements like this has always frustrated me. The mere suggestion that certain races or genders might be more apt to be better at a certain task is almost always dismissed dismissed as "racism" or "sexism." This is despite modern scientific knowledge that there are differences in brain structure between the sexes and the common knowledge that there are genetic differences, small as they may be, that can give different races a tendancy to have certain traits.

Exceptions always exist to every generalization, but to dismiss the possibility that a certain race or gender may be more apt to fill a certain position or job type is to deny fundamental genetic differences that do exist. For example, perhaps there are more black corners in the NFL because genetically they are more likely to be gifted with a package of better quick twitch muscle ability, speed, and reaction time.
Or you could just say that white people are stereotyped as slow by coaches and thus hardly ever tried at CB.

In the same way, perhaps there are more white QB's who succeed at the NFL level because they were more likely to be genetically gifted with better spacial recognition and feel for when and where to place a ball.
Or you could just say that it is because black people are stereotyped by coaches as not being intelligent enough to execute a playbook.

I don't know if genetic studies are quite sophisticated enough to prove this one one way or another, but I think it would make a heck of a study if/when it is possible to do so.

The bottom line for me is that 40, 30, maybe even 20 years ago I may have bought the racism argument as a valid concern as to why there are comparatively fewer black QB's. Today I think it is just an example of ignorance.

[TheChizo]

LOL ANT....I think from the threads I am reading, most in here agree with me. So i don't need to convince anyone but YOU. And for the "record," I think it's you who is a bit wiled up about this. And if you have been reading my posts, you would know that I am having fun with you. Can't you see the "laughing" comment? But again, you are very good at that whole SPIN thing. Lighten up brotha. It's ok. Once again, Smiling. And you know what? I know you are going to demand the last word so go ahead. Make one more sly/clever/manipulating off the topic comment about me "crying, upset, ulterior motive" etc, etc, because like rest of em Politically Correct whiners.......that's what your best at. However you lack substance or validity on any of your arguements. Typical. And in the end, you are going to avoid answering any of the original questions. Next time, let's try to stick with the topic and maybe we can discuss how your team payed way too much for Julian Peterson. A wink, a smile and a so long ANT. It was interesting :)

[TheChizo]

When I said "race issue," I meant a "racist" issue. I guess it came across the wrong way. I never meant for this to be a white/black racist issue. I was simply venting some frustration at this whole notion regarding political correctness and it's affect on sports. That's all.

[Wisconsin9erfan]

I'm not racist, I have a colored TV.

lol...nice.

[Fez]

I know some who read this thread might be offended by what I said but my intention isn't to offend but to openly discuss this issue with other mature and informed fans, athletes, etc. And if some of you even hint at this thread being racist, than you are again playing the race card and don't have anything intelligent or wise to add.

Akili Smith, third overall pick in 1999. Ahead of Cade McNown.

Afro-american people in the NFL LOVE to talk about racism in order to make excuses for poor careers or lack of intangibles. It's a shame those three guys had to ignite the "issue".

[BY97]

:ohmy: It's African-American, not black. :nonono:
Just out of curiosity... why aren't white people called "European Americans"? And what do the call black people who live in Europe or Asia or other continents in the world besides America and Africa?

[Fez]

My bad. You're right Chick. But it is kind of annoying that everytime the issue looks dead, someone has to bring it up again.

[markiemarko]

quote-
So please answer the question, why don't we have more whites, asians or hispanics in the NBA or NFL? why is it predominantly black? You see my point? Maybe there are more qualified black players? And as far as the QB position is concerned, maybe there are more qualified white QB's? Why cant we just leave it at that?
end quote


I can easily answer the question as why there are not more Asians in the NFL or NBA. Being Filipino-American myself (Asian or Pacific Islander) we are generally not that tall or big enough to play in the NBA or NFL unless your Yao Ming. That is why the MLB has more Asians (Japanese players) in their league because baseball doesn't rely on size alone like the other sports.

Most of the Pacific Islanders in football are Samoan (Jesse Sapolo) who are naturally large. On the other hand, Troy Palamolu isn't that big, just tough. The only other Asian football player I can think of is Dat Ngyuen, or Eugene Chung who played for the Patriots back in the day.

But mostly, Asians usually don't pursue sports after high school or even college, they (don't want to stereotype myself) usually lean towards other areas like the medical or technology field.

Now what I'd like to see is an Asian Hockey player......:laugh:

[Vinny]

Hines Ward's Mother is Korean

[markiemarko]

Hines Ward's Mother is Korean
yeah thats right, forgot about that....actually for the older people who remember Roman Gabriel (QB for the Rams) he was 1/2 Filipino.

[Vinny]

yeah thats right, forgot about that....actually for the older people who remember Roman Gabriel (QB for the Rams) he was 1/2 Filipino.Will Demps (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/303043) is Half Korean and Eugene Amano (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492879) OT Titans is Filipino as well. Let's not forget Jack Thompson the Throwin' Samoan.

[markiemarko]

Will Demps (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/303043) is Half Korean and Eugene Amano (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492879) OT Titans is Filipino as well. Let's not forget Jack Thompson the Throwin' Samoan.

good knowledge......i'm impressed

[statniner]

I gotta admit, I have a lot of Black friends who are naturally born players. I don't know why, but I see it in the pros too. I have nothing against anybody, but I don't think racism will be subject to cease, it's become a part of the whole worlds culture. White supremacy? Illegal immigrants? black on black crime, kkk? I'm getting off topic, but I just want to point out that I'm with people who become underdogs because of their ethnicity or cultural background.

[Vinny]

good knowledge......i'm impressedThanka. I was born in Koza City Okinawa myself.

On race & color...The only color that is important when it comes to players is green. The best get more than the others. Nobody cares what color you are if you win.

[TheChizo]

Bull caca. I think you wanted to blow off some racial steam.

I asked:


...which launched you into this:

You start out with "You brought up the argument so let's talk about it" as if I brought up the black QB vs. white QB argument. Nice try but even a person of average intelligence can see you were just dying to get your whole "What has a black QB ever done?" point across. I have no problem with people's opinions, even ones as pointless as the one you're making. I just think people who try to make it look like a point that they wanted to make was somehow drug out of them because they don't have the backbone to make it straight out are a joke.


Are you serious ANT??? I am Amused. Why do you persist on getting personal with this? Which leads me to believe you have lost your cool, my friend. I have stayed with the arguement and once again you have taken the other road and chose to get personal. Trust me my friend you"drug" nothing out of me except for me to rebut your arguement which orginated from your statement, trying to somehow imply that I was being biased by not talking about Rush. Who cares abot Rush. YOu see that's the problem. Why would you bring Rush into it? I have no clue. But why couldn't you simply stay with the topic? The topic was simply that Stephen A. Smith and the other panel guests was whining about racism. And trust me ANT, this isn't uncommon like you stated. I still hear it often.

Maybe you have selective hearing but watch Stephen A. Smith on a consistent basis and you will see what I am talking about. I am not saying he specifically makes a topic out of race issues. But somehow a discussion on the draft for example ended with blacks and racism because there wasn't enough black QB's in the NFL. I don't know if you understand the gist of what I am saying but for one reason or another in many discussions that I have seen with Stephen and his guests, at one point or another if it relates to blacks and the lack thereof in a certain organization, event, team or league, it almost always comes down to RACISM being the sole reason. And that's what I am growing weary of. And that's the point I was trying to get across before you decided to turn this into a....."Chizo has ulterior motives." If you think this is an isolated case, watch the show before you display your ignorance.

And even if I do talk about QB's and quality of QB's, so what? And trust me, I didn't need you to bring it out of me! LOL. I have no problem saying that Donovan McNabb is not all that, Michael Vick isn't all that. And I don't feel bad at all about saying it. But at the same time, I don't think Jake Delhome is all that either. You see ANT, I simply wish I can openly discuss and talk about QB's, RB's, Pitchers, Forwards and Swimmers of all races without being labeled a racist by intolerant PC supporters like yourself. And even if I did generalize at times, why is that so wrong? Because in the last 20 years the PC backers said it was? What's wrong with me thinking and believing that in general blacks have played better at WR position, at the RB position and at the corner position. Or in general, white players have been better quarterbacks, pitchers, etc. I'm sure everyone has their own philosophy and ideas as to reasons. But that's fine but what I am saying is in the now and present, from what we have seen on the field, these generalizations have merit. Why is that so wrong?? There are always some exceptions to the rule but in general, it's true. Am I wrong, is this not true??

If you chose to sincerely believe that I have ulterior motives because I was critical of Stephen A. Smith than you are entitled to your opinion but I am entitled to mine. Too funny. Because "Quite Frankly" you haven't convinced me of anything but only further cemented by views of how intolerant politically correct people are, have been and will be. ANT............I know you are steaming but bro relax, it's just a thread from a fan.

[NinerRider]

It doesn't look like you have an answer so I'll give you mine...

It probably has a lot to do with demographics and genetics. I'll start with genetics. African cultures tend to have more people of extraordinary height than other cultures. The opposite can be said of people of Asian cultures. This would be one factor in explaining why there are far more African American's in basketball than whites but there are also far more white people than Asians. Are the white people being racist toward Asians? Doubtful. If Asia was filled with Yao Mings, the NBA landscape might look a lot different.

Now to demographics. Basketball is one of the cheapest sports to play. A ball, a pair of shoes, and a public schoolyard/park is all you need. Doesn't even have to be a good ball. Now as you look across America, there are many more African American families living in situations that lend themselves to spending your entire day playing an extremely inexpensive sport. Michael Jordan himself talked about how he and his brothers would spend all day every day playing basketball on a wooden backboard in their backyard because they couldn't afford to do much else. I myself never spent all day doing any one thing. I spent half the day at the movies and the other half at the beach. Or I'd spend a lot of time down at the mall playing arcade games. I also got into playing football which required a lot more money for league fees, equipment, and specialized shoes (cleats) because I was fortunate enough to have been raised in a family of at least middle class income.

If you toured America, I think you would find that partly because of demographics and partly because of culture, you have a lot more kids in the inner city that play basketball. I've never heard of "And 1" doing one of their tournaments in a place like Orange County. I've combed the OC and still haven't found a "Rucker Park" setup yet. Why? Because there aren't hundreds of white kids out on the playgrounds there playing b-ball. And why would there be? If you've got the means, there are a lot more fun things to do on a summer day.

Now of course, America isn't split into rich white people and poor black people. There are plenty of poor white people in this country too. So it's no coincidence that the largest number of great white basketball players come out of some of the poorer states in the country like Indiana. Demographics. People play the sports they can afford to play which is why, even with the current stars, there aren't many African American stars in professional golf or tennis. Those sports are still dominated by the affluent because there aren't a lot of free places to play tennis or golf. And even if there were, the cost of the equipment is prohibitive. So it's not surprising that as the average income of African American's rises, we start to see more of them in sports that they were once a non-factor in. Hopefully it will all eventually level out so that both you and Stephen A. Smith can finally put a sock in it.

Pretty interesting theory on the demographics, I've never thought of that aspect. I always focused on the genetics; bigger, stronger, faster.

I live in the Bay Area and the last few years there have been a number of QBs that have come out of a higher middle class area in the East Bay (San Ramon, Orinda, Danville etc such as Dorsey,Drew Bennett, Sam Keller, Kyle Wright, Drew Olson and a few others I can't think of right now) I always thought it was weird that all these big time college QBs were coming from the same area and then I read an article one day that said most of these guys shared the same private QB coach, which is a great advantage for a young QB. How many young QBs in Richmond or Oakland could even afford to have a personal QB coach? And how much better would that make them if they had access to one?

[NinerRider]

The topic was simply that Stephen A. Smith and the other panel guests was whining about racism. .

I think what you're failing to realize is that back in the day Head Coaches seriously thought that a black QB wasn't smart enough to play the position so they would automatically make them a WR, RB, CB or something without even giving them a real shot. I think what Stephen A. Smith and the other guests were doing was less about whining and more about remembering the history of this sort of thing happening. It's not like they just pulled this theory out of mid air with no reason or anythting, it was, maybe still is, a real issue.

[Vinny]

I think what you're failing to realize is that back in the day Head Coaches seriously thought that a black QB wasn't smart enough to play the position so they would automatically make them a WR, RB, CB or something without even giving them a real shot. I think what Stephen A. Smith and the other guests were doing was less about whining and more about remembering the history of this sort of thing happening. It's not like they just pulled this theory out of mid air with no reason or anythting, it was, maybe still is, a real issue.It was so bad Hall of Famer Warren Moon had to go to Canada to play and win 5 Championships before the Oilers in the NFL signed him to play. Moon broke a lot of barriers when it came to the black QB, respectability, and being paid like the top players at his position.

Moon, a one-time University of Washington athlete, began his career with Edmonton of the Canadian Football League because NFL teams in that time were not utilizing blacks at quarterback. In six years in Canada, he took his teams to five Grey Cup championships. He also is a member of the Canadian League Hall of Fame.

In Houston in 1984, he began his 17-year NFL run. "I'm more proud of the longevity than anything else," Moon said. "For some reason, I was able to play a lot longer than other people did."

His selection came in his first year of eligibility for the hall; players cannot be considered until five years after their careers have wound down.

Said Moon: "I had to wait to go to a major college; I had to wait to go into the NFL; I thought maybe I would have to wait for this to happen."

He said he feels he must share the honor accorded him by the hall with other black quarterbacks who have served in the NFL, Doug Williams in particular. Williams directed Washington to a 42-10 Super Bowl victory over Denver at Qualcomm Stadium in 1988. "I think that helped the rest of us," said Moon. http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/magee/20060205-87-maddenel.html

[NinerRider]

Will Demps (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/303043) is Half Korean and Eugene Amano (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492879) OT Titans is Filipino as well. Let's not forget Jack Thompson the Throwin' Samoan.

I was about to bring that up about Eugene Amano. Pinoy 4 LIfe! haha, j/k

[Joe Montana]

Threads like this make me feel sad.
When a QB is referred to as a QB and not "black" or "white", this whole country will be a better place.
I am sick of hearing blacks use the race card.
To me, all it does is divide people more.
The way this thread has eveolved is just a microcosim of our society.
It is sad.
There are tones of people I trust and tons I really do not like... almost bordering on hate.
None of my feelings are based on the color of their skin.
I wish people like Steven A. Smith and the players on the show did not say the things they did.
I think it just divides people more.
Peace to everyone.