Hawk or VD

[dan49fan]

Im wondering if you guys had the choice would you pick VD or Hawk. Me personnaly would take Hawk. We need an outside linebacker. Hawk is so fast he can cover and can be sent on blitzes and sack the QB before they ever even see him coming. There is depth at that position but TE is also deep. And there is no other OLB on Hawk's level of play. I think i could find at least one other guy on VD's level. Hawk will be the next best linebacker in the NFL. JP will be forgottened when Hawk becomes a great linebacker here.

[livndiea9er]

Im wondering if you guys had the choice would you pick VD or Hawk. Me personnaly would take Hawk. We need an outside linebacker. Hawk is so fast he can cover and can be sent on blitzes and sack the QB before they ever even see him coming. There is depth at that position but TE is also deep. And there is no other OLB on Hawk's level of play. I think i could find at least one other guy on VD's level. Hawk will be the next best linebacker in the NFL. JP will be forgottened when Hawk becomes a great linebacker here.
The Duke bro, all the way!

[Amitron]

I would take Hawk, but it seems most people on the board would disagree. Wouldn't it be nice if the fans could vote on who to take?

[juicyjay504]

Vd.

[49ersCatch]

The way I see it is this. Hawk is a 10. Davis is a 10. Pope/Lewis are like 7's. Carpenter/Lawson are like 8's. Therefor take Davis and Carpenter/Lawson and get overall a better draft than if you get Hawk and Pope/Lewis.

If you didn't follow that, what I'm trying to say is that there's a bigger difference between VD and the next best TE than there is Hawk and the next best Olb.

I would personally like either one, I lean towards davis more because I don't want antonio bryant to have to be alex smith's go to guy.. I like him, but I think he needs a better target.

Hawk would be nice though too since our division is stacked with top name running backs such as Shaun Alexander and Edgerine James.

[Amitron]

^^ See, i get no love :'(

[SJ_408_niner]

****, thats hard. I would honestly be really happy with either one.:D

[TerrellOwns]

whichever is available

[Scott817]

HAWK we need a great LB badly. We have some good guys but no more stars and in a 3-4 I would think that would be very important for us to suceed.

[Joe 2 Cool]

vd :boxing:

[NinerbyDesign]

The way I see it is this. Hawk is a 10. Davis is a 10. Pope/Lewis are like 7's. Carpenter/Lawson are like 8's. Therefor take Davis and Carpenter/Lawson and get overall a better draft than if you get Hawk and Pope/Lewis.

agree, although hawk would definately bolster our lb corp, this draft is filled with lb talent (like carpenter/lawson) who do have the skill and potential to be solid players in the nfl. i just don't see how you can pass up on vernon davis, defense wins championships, but in recent years we have seen how the te position has evolved (shockey, gonzalez, gates, etc.) and it would give alex smith a beast of an offense weapon.

[PsychoZombie]

The way I see it is this. Hawk is a 10. Davis is a 10. Pope/Lewis are like 7's. Carpenter/Lawson are like 8's. Therefor take Davis and Carpenter/Lawson and get overall a better draft than if you get Hawk and Pope/Lewis.

If you didn't follow that, what I'm trying to say is that there's a bigger difference between VD and the next best TE than there is Hawk and the next best Olb.

I would personally like either one, I lean towards davis more because I don't want antonio bryant to have to be alex smith's go to guy.. I like him, but I think he needs a better target.

Hawk would be nice though too since our division is stacked with top name running backs such as Shaun Alexander and Edgerine James.

Exactly the way I see it the most bang for our buck so to speak, get massive help on offense with Davis and still get a great OLB in Greenway/Lawson. Win/Win.

[TerrellOwns]

well if hawk was there i believe we would take him, but im pretty sure he wont be available so we would go with davis.

[Keyser Soze]

I would go with VD, i saw plenty of hawk and he IS a good MLB but i don't think he will make a good OLB....don't get me wrong i love my bucks but VD is Insane.

[WehaveVD]

Green Bay is quite enamored with Hawk and their lack of OLB's give them reason to draft him at #5....It'll have to be VD!!!!!

[Tracker]

I am going with VD on this one. Smith needs help out there and their of some very good DE/OLB tweeners we can pick up later in the 1st and on down.

[ricekobe]

Hawk is a beast, but I just dont see him as a good OLB in the 3-4. I would take VD and then a good DE/LB hybrid with #22

[Veritas]

Im wondering if you guys had the choice would you pick VD or Hawk. Me personnaly would take Hawk. We need an outside linebacker. Hawk is so fast he can cover and can be sent on blitzes and sack the QB before they ever even see him coming. There is depth at that position but TE is also deep. And there is no other OLB on Hawk's level of play. I think i could find at least one other guy on VD's level. Hawk will be the next best linebacker in the NFL. JP will be forgottened when Hawk becomes a great linebacker here.

Tough decision for me. I'm probably swayed more towards VD, only because of all the hype here (and the 5 minute highlight video helped!), and I don't really know how good Hawk is (I've only heard).

I'd be happy with either one, though! Go :sflogo: !

[Nelson]

I cant believe what most of you are saying! We drafted a good qb with lots of potential last year but he had nobody to throw to! We have to get this kid some weapons to throw to. surely anonio bryant is not the answer to our passing game. If we take Davis with the 6th pick we'll be drafting a big time playmaker on offense and the best tight end since antonio gates. then with #22 we take either Carpenter or Greenway to help on the linebacking side.

[juxtafras]

gotta get some VD. if this offense doesn't get better, then the upgraded D with a new safety and OLB will still be sucking wind when it's on the field for 40 minutes a game.

with a well balanced team having offensive and defensive playmakers this team will improve in the 06. we just have to limit the 3 and outs on offense. that should be our primary concern.

[niner4life]

Hawk is a beast, but I just dont see him as a good OLB in the 3-4. I would take VD and then a good DE/LB hybrid with #22

Everywhere I read I hear that Hawk is fitted for both the 3-4 and 4-3, why do you think he wouldn't do good in this system?

[felixdakatt]

Going into the draft preparation, I thought Hawk seemed like a logical choice for us. My gutt still tells me they're eyeing him to be the future leader on defense. My heart says VD, but my head says Hawk, so I'm guessing Hawk will be the pick, and we'll grab a FS at #22.

[Ohio49erfan]

In a first round so ripe with defensive talent, we are in a good spot to take one of the very very few special offensive impact players, and he happens to be in an area of need. I really believe we need a playmaker in the receiving corps, and Davis is the best of the bunch. Bottom line, until Bryant, Battle, EJ, and Co. prove that they are capable, I still consider them to be an area of concern and a team need.

I trust Nolan enough to be able to pull some rabbits out of his hat in the 3rd-7th rounds on the defensive side of the ball.. Hell, Spend the entire rest of the draft on defensive players after our 6 pick..

We've done a lot of things to show trust in Alex.. drafted him #1 overall, got rid of Rattay, etc.. Just give Alex one big toy to play with and give our WRs one year also to show us that they can either step up and be starters, or we spend next year (purported to be rich in receiver talent) replacing them, all the while our defensive picks from this year are gelling/proving themselves..

Will I be upset if we get a defensive player w/ the 6?? nope, because Im rollin' with nolan! :worthy:

At this point, Id only be upset if we went D'brick, QB, or Huff.. And even then Id figure that Nolan knew something I didnt (duh!) and keep on rollin'!

GO GO GOOD GUYS! :sflogo:

[kb4sf]

vernon davis is a no brainer :closed: ... where did were we hurt the most last year... it was in our offense not the defense... i understand we lost carter and JP on D but those are players that you can replace... carter did not live up to his potentional and JP is just lets say himself... this situation that we are in is very similar to what the texans are facing... should we pick the best player avaible or the best player for the team... if it was you would u pass on bush.. common sense says no... he and vernon davis are very similar in the sense that they are two very rare players that only come around once in a while... he has the strength of a linebacker and is faster than any wide recievers that we have has a vert at 40" has good hands and is good at run blocking... this is the type of player that would really help out alex a bunch... he can run the short crossing routes that the niners love, you stretch him out to run deep post, and if need be he is strong enough to get those short yardage 1rst downs.. in my own opinion hawk is just going to be a average linebacker in the league... since you are on the topic of defense though at 22 i would pick up jimmy williams from vtech... a very fast and hard hitting saftey...

[49ertime]

VD.:biggrin:

[Mr Spoons]

vernon davis is a no brainer :closed: ... where did were we hurt the most last year... it was in our offense not the defense...

So our D wasn't ranked #32 too? Oh..wait..it was:whistling: And no..the D didn't spend 40 minutes a game on the pitch, it was 32 and a half on average.

i understand we lost carter and JP on D but those are players that you can replace...
Not if you don't draft anyone to replace them.:ohmy:

should we pick the best player avaible or the best player for the team... if it was you would u pass on bush.. common sense says no...
When you have holes (i.e. no starter), you fill the hole first, unless there's no-one worth the pick. Then you can go BPA. And just so you know, most people have AJ rated ABOVE Vernon, so BPA is AJ.

he and vernon davis are very similar in the sense that they are two very rare players that only come around once in a while...
These once in a lifetime players seem to come around awfully frequently though...

he has the strength of a linebacker and is faster than any wide recievers that we have has a vert at 40" has good hands and is good at run blocking... this is the type of player that would really help out alex a bunch... he can run the short crossing routes that the niners love, you stretch him out to run deep post, and if need be he is strong enough to get those short yardage 1rst downs..
Fine. Is he any good at rushing the passer?

in my own opinion hawk is just going to be a average linebacker in the league...
That's your opinion, but it's not shared by many. I've seen him described as "the most surefire pick" this year.

since you are on the topic of defense though at 22 i would pick up jimmy williams from vtech... a very fast and hard hitting saftey...
Does he rush the passer very well? See my comment earlier about not replacing JP and AC if we don't draft anyone....:nonono:

We all went Vernon-crazy when we thought we were drafting #7 and missing out on the Big 5. We made up all kinds of justifications why AJ and Mario weren't really the guys we wanted, not as effective in a 3-4 being the main one for both, so that we could feel better about drafting Huff or Jimmy Williams or Vernon. Then after the Combine, we needed to justify Vernon over the DBs, because we really NEED a Safety. Suddenly, EJ becomes an invalid who will never wear cleats again and Alex needs weapons (because Bryant and EJ aren't enough - he needs more - see the DeAngelo threads). Now, Vernmania has grown to such a pitch that we are convincing ourselves that a TE who was mid-round a couple of months ago is now better than AJ.

If AJ is there at #6, we should take AJ. It's not even close.

[Rocketknight73]

I prefer Vernon Davis. I don't think there is another player in this draft anything like him. While I believe Hawk is an outstanding talent I think we can get a great linebacker with the 22nd pick. Many here in Ohio believe that Bobby Carpenter will be just as productive as Hawk will be in the NFL.:sflogo:

[HoosierNiner]

I like 49erCatch scenario...but either way, I'd be happy with a Davis-Carpenter/Lawson 1st round or a Hawk-Carpenter/Lawson 1st round.

[Kenage]

I pick Vernon Davis. I think that Hawk would be best inside at the NFL level and we dont need another inside LB right now.

[kb4sf]

so then what you are essentially saying is that aj is going to lead the league in sacks "rush the passer" right???? no! one person cant change sf's defense it will take an overall change... my next question to you would be who is the most important player to sf right now??? Alex Smith... so with our 24 mill wraped up in him dont you think that we should try and help him out?? VD would have much more of an impact on the team as a whole right away then hawk would.. askthe falcons who their #1 reciever is.... crumpler... hmmm do we have some sort of trend here... TE are the new trend in the NFL as a secondary threat to the WR's.. the list of TE's doesnt stop their.. so back to ur hawk though.. lets reference mr. Ray Lewis and his recent interview... he complained that he wasnt happy because he wasnt able to roam free.. reason being was that he didnt have a good defensive line.. wait a min ray lewis??? one of the top linebackers in the league if not the best said that... so we go ahead and draft hawk whats next.... we still have a big gap from ac... so how is aj supposed to preform when he doesnt even have an defensive line that will support his ability to roam... cause lets face it defensive ends are the ones who are responsible for the majority of the sacks not the linebackers... oh and the and you asked if VD rushes the passer... lol.. im sure with his body and speed he could play linebacker... he is a phyiscal beast and could play practically any position that he wants to!:boxing:

[niner4life]

How many championship teams have relied on their TE for pass yards?... defense wins superbowls.

[kb4sf]

How many championship teams have relied on their TE for pass yards?... defense wins superbowls.

so the aj is going to win us the superbowl???? to many parts on both sides of the field are needed and VD will have a greater impact on the team then aj period...

[gp1680]

Is it Saturday yet??? :banghead:

[niner4life]

so the aj is going to win us the superbowl???? to many parts on both sides of the field are needed and VD will have a greater impact on the team then aj period...

I just think we should build our defense first. With Hawk being the safest pick I would go with him if he's there. I'm not saying i am against getting VD though, both most likely will be good

[kb4sf]

I just think we should build our defense first. With Hawk being the safest pick I would go with him if he's there. I'm not saying i am against getting VD though, both most likely will be good

how is hawk more "safe" than VD??? there is no saftey in any pick i think its more of a comfort level in the position..

[niner4life]

how is hawk more "safe" than VD??? there is no saftey in any pick i think its more of a comfort level in the position..

Exactly i am more comfortable with a LB at #6 instead of a TE.

[9errealist]

Originally Posted by Mr Spoons:So our D wasn't ranked #32 too? Oh..wait..it was And no..the D didn't spend 40 minutes a game on the pitch, it was 32 and a half on average.


And just why was our D so bad? Why could it be because our offense couldn't sustain a drive for longer then 30 sec , multiple 3 and outs will do that to a def.

Originally Posted by Mr Spoons:Not if you don't draft anyone to replace them.


The one position in the draft thats loaded with talent is LB and CB. We could very well get just as good players later.

Originally Posted by Mr Spoons:We all went Vernon-crazy when we thought we were drafting #7 and missing out on the Big 5. We made up all kinds of justifications why AJ and Mario weren't really the guys we wanted, not as effective in a 3-4 being the main one for both, so that we could feel better about drafting Huff or Jimmy Williams or Vernon. Then after the Combine, we needed to justify Vernon over the DBs, because we really NEED a Safety. Suddenly, EJ becomes an invalid who will never wear cleats again and Alex needs weapons (because Bryant and EJ aren't enough - he needs more - see the DeAngelo threads). Now, Vernmania has grown to such a pitch that we are convincing ourselves that a TE who was mid-round a couple of months ago is now better than AJ.

If AJ is there at #6, we should take AJ. It's not even close.
__________________
The artist formerly known as Slap42

British by birth,
English by the Grace of God.

A need is a need IMO, doesn't matter which we fill 1st. However when a talent like VD is sitting there with Hawk and a ton of other talented LB's which choice would be the right one? I'm not saying VD is going to re-write the books but you have to admit he's a game breaker. He has talents at TE that no other Draftee TE has. Heck most pro TE's aren't capable of the things he'll be able to do.

Replacing JP and Carter? JP's season was below average IMO and don't even get me started on Carter's ability to NOT get to the QB. Give me Manny Lawson, and a late round Kai Parham and I'd say spots filled with depth added.

[niner4life]

And just why was our D so bad? Why could it be because our offense couldn't sustain a drive for longer then 30 sec , multiple 3 and outs will do that to a def.

The one position in the draft thats loaded with talent is LB and CB. We could very well get just as good players later.


A need is a need IMO, doesn't matter which we fill 1st. However when a talent like VD is sitting there with Hawk and a ton of other talented LB's which choice would be the right one? I'm not saying VD is going to re-write the books but you have to admit he's a game breaker. He has talents at TE that no other Draftee TE has. Heck most pro TE's aren't capable of the things he'll be able to do.

Replacing JP and Carter? JP's season was below average IMO and don't even get me started on Carter's ability to NOT get to the QB. Give me Manny Lawson, and a late round Kai Parham and I'd say spots filled with depth added.

This is one of the strongest defensive drafts in a while and we should take advantage of that by taking the best players at the positions. Personnaly i think we should ride this offense this year and then rebuild it with next years FA and draft.

[kb4sf]

thank you reallist for being real... lol.. heck with VD's body he could even play defense... lol.. not that i would like that but it would be funny.. with all this talk about aj people are saying that carpenter will most likely be just as good as hawk... i have friends that go to OSU and they all say that they like him but that they just think that he is going to be an average player in the league... why not take carpenter at 22 if you are worried about LB??? there are alot of options just not with the 6 pick.. VD is the only one...

[DenverNiner]

So our D wasn't ranked #32 too? Oh..wait..it was:whistling: And no..the D didn't spend 40 minutes a game on the pitch, it was 32 and a half on average.
I don't know what the average was over the whole season but please keep in mind:
Game Opp Def. on Field
1 Rams 39min 23 sec
2 Eagles 37min 57 sec (can I mention that we didn't score a TD?)
4 Cards 37min 48 sec
That's a great way to start off last season 3 of the first 4 games. The average for the season was thrown way off by our defense only being on the field only
22 minutes against the Texans. Please don't count that game! Our goal is not to stay competitive with the Texans.

[QOUTE=kb4sf]Originally Posted by kb4sf
i understand we lost carter and JP on D but those are players that you can replace...
Not if you don't draft anyone to replace them.:ohmy: .
Who said anything about not drafting any replacement LBs? I'm sure there are numerous players in the draft that will be able to post the unimpressive takles and sacks JP and Carter put up, and most of them are not in the top ten.
I'm not saying we don't need to draft LB's this year take him at #22 or later.

When you have holes (i.e. no starter), you fill the hole first, unless there's no-one worth the pick. Then you can go BPA. And just so you know, most people have AJ rated ABOVE Vernon, so BPA is AJ..
And we all know all the professionals will draft the players according to the little charts you read by Kiper, Sporting News, etc etc Yep Straight down the line. Not a good plug for AJ.



These once in a lifetime players seem to come around awfully frequently though....
No TE ever has physically done what Davis has done. In terms of strength and speed anyway. Sorry but Hawk can't say that. And YES Davis may well redefine the positon.


Originally Posted by kb4sf
he has the strength of a linebacker and is faster than any wide recievers that we have has a vert at 40" has good hands and is good at run blocking... this is the type of player that would really help out alex a bunch... he can run the short crossing routes that the niners love, you stretch him out to run deep post, and if need be he is strong enough to get those short yardage 1rst downs..
Fine. Is he any good at rushing the passer?
Why make not make a point there? Nothing to dispute? Is he a good at rushing the passer? No but could Hawk have scored a touchdown in the seven games that we did not have one?


Originally Posted by kb4sf
in my own opinion hawk is just going to be a average linebacker in the league... /QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mr Spoons]
That's your opinion, but it's not shared by many. I've seen him described as "the most surefire pick" this year..
....to make it in the NFL maybe



Does he rush the passer very well? See my comment earlier about not replacing JP and AC if we don't draft anyone... .

See my comment about going seven games last year with out a TD!


We all went Vernon-crazy when we thought we were drafting #7 and missing out on the Big 5. .
Are you saying that "We" are the only one going crazy over Davis?
Hey did you here the one about the Broncos trying to trade up with usin order to Draft Davis? Rumor only maybe but I don't doubt it. I guess when your 250+, 6'3" something, show up at the combine and actually work for the teams to see, and run a 4.38 40 and have a 42 in vertical...
I guess teams just like that :unsure:


We made up all kinds of justifications why AJ and Mario weren't really the guys we wanted, not as effective in a 3-4 being the main one for both, so that we could feel better about drafting Huff or Jimmy Williams or Vernon..
My reason is I have complete confidence in Nolan and his staff to find really good LB's after we pick Davis.



Then after the Combine, we needed to justify Vernon over the DBs, because we really NEED a Safety. Suddenly, EJ becomes an invalid who will never wear cleats again ..
You'd like to take a safety with the #6 :wacko: If we're going to take a safety I think we should back out of #6....back out very slowly and put the pipe down. EJ is not an invalid but I think it's kind of relevent that he's only play in about 30% of the games in the past three years.

and Alex needs weapons (because Bryant and EJ aren't enough - he needs more - see the DeAngelo threads). So is that EJ 30% and Bryant 70% of the time? If so, I don't like our odds. And I really hope we don't draft a running back in the first round. There are a lot tougher things to get than a good running back.

Now, Vernmania has grown to such a pitch that we are convincing ourselves that a TE who was mid-round a couple of months ago is now better than AJ.

If AJ is there at #6, we should take AJ. It's not even close.
"A couple months ago", I was thinking of a much needed offensive threat. Davis is just that. I think we can take our pick of any LB at #22 and Nolan and Singletary will turn him into a complete animal. There is no reason to draft Hawk @#6. Not even close.

[kb4sf]

thanks denver.... lol.. why not take carpenter at 22 he was just opposite of hawk... lol.. for the people that want him so badly.. oh well it will all be solved on saturday with the 49ers at #6 picking Vernon Davis..

[DenverNiner]

thanks denver.... lol.. why not take carpenter at 22 he was just opposite of hawk... lol.. for the people that want him so badly.. oh well it will all be solved on saturday with the 49ers at #6 picking Vernon Davis..
I hope they pick Davis, but what I really want is a good pick. I'm sure I'll be happy after day 1. And then in a couple years we'll learn if it was a good pick or not. :laugh:

[RandG Bleeder]

The more I think about it is VD if we keep the pick, then Carpenter, Alston in the third then address pass rush with Hatcher in the 4th along with Baskett.

[_Jerden]

We could get an extraordinary offensive threat or an elite middle linebacker.

I would prefer to protect our investment in Alex Smith. We will do this with our o-line and the running game. Bryant, Battle, and Davis would make for a great playmaking combo for Smith to throw to. Give the quarterback a running game and some playmakers to throw to and many quarterbacks will look good.
Defenses shutting down offenses helps too. AJ Hawk would be in excellent hands to excel in the NFL with Nolan, Davis and Singletary. So would any linebacker at #22.
Thomas Howard has been compared to 3-4 pass rusher Joey Porter and 4-3 stud Keith Bulluck. Porter had 39 tackles 10.5 sacks 2 ints 4 FF and a Super Bowl ring. Bulluck had 102 tackles 5 sacks and 2 ints. Moore is a great all around linebacker with the ability to get to the quarterback. Howard could cover tight ends and be used on blitzes.

[NinerBob]

Satuday please hurry !!! I'm tired of the suspence I can see merit in both sides of the arguement but I'm tired of hearing VD versus so and so. He's just another player and one player wont make that big a difference especially if EJ is healthy which by everything I hear is the case. Since we have a bigger need at OLB than TE we should draft there. IMHO We take which ever player is the best available unless it comes down to these 2 (which would be a help to us I believe equally on either side of the ball) then I have to go with the D.:sflogo:

[Mr Spoons]

I don't know what the average was over the whole season but please keep in mind:
Game Opp Def. on Field
1 Rams 39min 23 sec
2 Eagles 37min 57 sec (can I mention that we didn't score a TD?)
4 Cards 37min 48 sec
That's a great way to start off last season 3 of the first 4 games. The average for the season was thrown way off by our defense only being on the field only
22 minutes against the Texans. Please don't count that game! Our goal is not to stay competitive with the Texans.

And just remind me...that worst game where the D was on the field for 39 minutes. What was the result? No commentary about that one because it kinda screws your argument?

The D had 5 games in the entire season where they were on the pitch for over 35 minutes, including the 3 you posted above. Yes, our offence 3-and-outed a bit, but it's not like they did it every series.

Originally Posted by kb4sf
i understand we lost carter and JP on D but those are players that you can replace...

Who said anything about not drafting any replacement LBs? I'm sure there are numerous players in the draft that will be able to post the unimpressive takles and sacks JP and Carter put up, and most of them are not in the top ten.
I'm not saying we don't need to draft LB's this year take him at #22 or later.

And we all know all the professionals will draft the players according to the little charts you read by Kiper, Sporting News, etc etc Yep Straight down the line. Not a good plug for AJ.
There's a fairly good supply of TEs who would, in other drafts, be considered very highly, certainly in the same league as Heath Miller, 1st rounder from last year. And here's a tip for you. Although all the draftnik sites may have anomalies, and odd picks, I would suggest that if they all say "Player X is really good and will be a star in the NFL", it's pretty likely that NFL scouts will have the same information.


No TE ever has physically done what Davis has done. In terms of strength and speed anyway. Sorry but Hawk can't say that. And YES Davis may well redefine the positon.
Right...what was that again...800 yards from 50 catches? No TDs against defensive powerhouses Navy and Wake Forest and Temple. 4-48 against Virginia Tech. 4-54 against FSU (including that super highlight reel stiffarm that everybody loves). 4-59 and 1 TD against Virginia. No more than 1 TD per game. I'll own to 8-108 against NC State being a good performance, given the D talent from that school in this draft.

Does this sound familiar - "The size of a power forward (6-6, 248) and the speed of a wide receiver (4.48). " That comment was about Rickey Dudley before he went top ten and we all know how he re-defined the position.


Why make not make a point there? Nothing to dispute? Is he a good at rushing the passer? No but could Hawk have scored a touchdown in the seven games that we did not have one?
AJ is more likely to score than Vernon is to get a sack, given an Int or a FF can give us a defensive score. I wasn't disputing what kb4sf said about Vernon, it just wasn't really that important. The same as this isn't that important about Hawk, in the context of the discussion.
"Incredibly instinctive with top football intelligence...Always around the ball...Makes plays sideline-to-sideline and has good range...Has more than enough speed and closes fast...Is a sure tackler...Very solid in coverage against backs and tight ends...Does an excellent job of shedding blockers and working his way through traffic...Extremely productive...Team leader and captain...Works as hard as anyone...Intense, competitive and tough player with off the chart intangibles. (from NFLDraftCountdown.com)"


....to make it in the NFL maybe

Well...it is all about "making it" really, isn't it.


Are you saying that "We" are the only one going crazy over Davis?
Hey did you here the one about the Broncos trying to trade up with usin order to Draft Davis? Rumor only maybe but I don't doubt it. I guess when your 250+, 6'3" something, show up at the combine and actually work for the teams to see, and run a 4.38 40 and have a 42 in vertical...
I guess teams just like that :unsure:

Yes...well...Denver (challengers for the Superbowl with no real holes in their team) wanting to draft a TE must make it absolutely crucial that we (4-12 team, #32 on both sides of the ball, holes on defense, poor depth generally) ignore our other needs and draft that guy.


My reason is I have complete confidence in Nolan and his staff to find really good LB's after we pick Davis.
I have confidence in Nolan et al, but I'd still rather have them spend our #6 pick to fill our greatest need with a guy who has ALWAYS been top 5, rather than a workout warrior on the basis of a good Combine.


You'd like to take a safety with the #6 :wacko: If we're going to take a safety I think we should back out of #6....back out very slowly and put the pipe down. EJ is not an invalid but I think it's kind of relevent that he's only play in about 30% of the games in the past three years.
So is that EJ 30% and Bryant 70% of the time? If so, I don't like our odds. And I really hope we don't draft a running back in the first round. There are a lot tougher things to get than a good running back.

Funny really. Most people say :wacko: about drafting a TE at #6. If we use the last 20 years as a nice round period, there have been 6 Safeties drafted in the Top Ten. They are:

Bennie Blades (he wasn't bad...)
Rickey Dixon (neither was he..)
Mark Carrier (wow...can you see a theme here...)
Eric Turner (not bad)
Sean Taylor (ohh..another good one...)
Roy Williams (....)

Two Tight Ends have gone top ten in the same period:
Rickey Dudley (oh dear)
Kellen Winslow Jr (still has time, but so far...oh dear)

As for EJ, yes he missed all last year and all of 2003. In 2004 he played in all 16 games and was top 3 amongst TEs for receptions. So he doesn't only make 30% of games. He either makes them all or none. As a comparison, let's see how many games our OLBs have missed in the last 3 seasons. Oh wait, I forgot, we don't have any.


"A couple months ago", I was thinking of a much needed offensive threat. Davis is just that. I think we can take our pick of any LB at #22 and Nolan and Singletary will turn him into a complete animal. There is no reason to draft Hawk @#6. Not even close.
Yes...you're right...no reason whatsoever to draft the dominant LB in his class, a top 5 prospect all the way...no reason at all :rolleyes2:

[DenverNiner]

good post! I'll reply when I have a little more time after work. Whoever we draft I'm sure we'll both enjoy watching the draft, cheers!

[kb4sf]

well either way i think that we can agree that either player is going to help us from our current position... im just on the campagin trail for VD!!!!:wink:

[Kenage]

I dont think Hawk would really help us right now. I really think he can only play inside with a 3-4 base defense and we already have two solid starters at those spots. If we moved to a 4-3 to suite Hawks abilities we would have too many inside guys and what do we do with Smith, Ulbrick, & Co? We also wouldn't have enough 4-3 ends to run the defense and we would have to take a couple of d-lineman in the draft. If both players are on the board for us to take at No. 6 we should take Davis no doubt because he fits in best with what we already have better than Hawk.

[kb4sf]

I dont think Hawk would really help us right now. I really think he can only play inside with a 3-4 base defense and we already have two solid starters at those spots. If we moved to a 4-3 to suite Hawks abilities we would have too many inside guys and what do we do with Smith, Ulbrick, & Co? We also wouldn't have enough 4-3 ends to run the defense and we would have to take a couple of d-lineman in the draft. If both players are on the board for us to take at No. 6 we should take Davis no doubt because he fits in best with what we already have better than Hawk.

much agreed i think we could also pick up players like that later in the draft... VD is just a rare talent...

[Ohio49erfan]

This thread (and all the others) has become somewhat pointless.. I think fans have just latched onto "their guy" and the only thing that will come of it Saturday is I told you so's... Either of these guys would be a big boost to a position of need.. arguing which is going to be a bigger boost is just conjecture, nothing more.. Im sure you've heard it before, but the adage goes "everybody's right on draft day".. we wont know for a couple years AFTER the draft to be able to tell if the pick that our team made was the right one or not.. and just because we dont pick someone and they do well with their other team doesnt mean they would have been better here, different circumstances..

Every fan here should just be :nolan:

GO GO GOOD GUYS! :sflogo:

[kb4sf]

This thread (and all the others) has become somewhat pointless.. I think fans have just latched onto "their guy" and the only thing that will come of it Saturday is I told you so's... Either of these guys would be a big boost to a position of need.. arguing which is going to be a bigger boost is just conjecture, nothing more.. Im sure you've heard it before, but the adage goes "everybody's right on draft day".. we wont know for a couple years AFTER the draft to be able to tell if the pick that our team made was the right one or not.. and just because we dont pick someone and they do well with their other team doesnt mean they would have been better here, different circumstances..

Every fan here should just be :nolan:

GO GO GOOD GUYS! :sflogo:

and thats why the forums are fun you can argue your points with other people and get different views... some see it as pointless, others, the ones that posts here, see it as constructive criticism. it always going to be a guessing game but thats whats so much fun... have fun saturday morning watching the draft... and try so sugar with ur coffee..:whistling:

[DIEHARD9ER]

Nolan has allready said that if hawk and davis (figuring mario to be gone)are both available at #6 ...he will take hawk....too bad we cant grab all 3

[zedrational]

Hawk.

[Ice Train]

Nolan has allready said that if hawk and davis (figuring mario to be gone)are both available at #6 ...he will take hawk....too bad we cant grab all 3

When did he say that, I don't remember him saying that.

Link

[Ice Train]

This thread (and all the others) has become somewhat pointless.. I think fans have just latched onto "their guy" and the only thing that will come of it Saturday is I told you so's... Either of these guys would be a big boost to a position of need.. arguing which is going to be a bigger boost is just conjecture, nothing more.. Im sure you've heard it before, but the adage goes "everybody's right on draft day".. we wont know for a couple years AFTER the draft to be able to tell if the pick that our team made was the right one or not.. and just because we dont pick someone and they do well with their other team doesnt mean they would have been better here, different circumstances..

Every fan here should just be :nolan:

GO GO GOOD GUYS! :sflogo:

Agreed, I just hope I am one of the ones saying I told you so.

VD

[kb4sf]

Nolan has allready said that if hawk and davis (figuring mario to be gone)are both available at #6 ...he will take hawk....too bad we cant grab all 3

1 problem... GB takes hawk at 5 then what??? lol.. VD in 06 red n gold..

[DIEHARD9ER]

Nolan said that in an interview and its posted on scout .com..its not letting me paste it here..and its anybodys guess on who will be there at #6....yeah greenbay wants hawk,,,but are they going to get presents for favre instead?????he basicly was sayin he wanted some players if he was to stay???was that for offense or defense???will new orleans trade out to somebody that wants a qb ? a bunch of things could happen that'll change everything....how many more minutes untill this is over??????????????????????/

[kb4sf]

Nolan said that in an interview and its posted on scout .com..its not letting me paste it here..and its anybodys guess on who will be there at #6....yeah greenbay wants hawk,,,but are they going to get presents for favre instead?????he basicly was sayin he wanted some players if he was to stay???was that for offense or defense???will new orleans trade out to somebody that wants a qb ? a bunch of things could happen that'll change everything....how many more minutes untill this is over??????????????????????/

much agreed i cant wait till saturday much of what is said now is just smoke and mirrors to see how other teams will react and as always the fans go crazy too.. lol..

[dan49fan]

what info are you basing that off of to me you jus have an opinion that maybe only one expert has

[kb4sf]

what info are you basing that off of to me you jus have an opinion that maybe only one expert has

thats what almost everything in these threads are... just opinions... unless someone from the 49er staff is apart of this message board and we just dont know it... lol

[jay_1699]

If they pick hawk, I'll puke... what a waste.

[49ersFaithful]

[QUOTE=49ersCatch]The way I see it is this. Hawk is a 10. Davis is a 10. Pope/Lewis are like 7's. Carpenter/Lawson are like 8's. Therefor take Davis and Carpenter/Lawson and get overall a better draft than if you get Hawk and Pope/Lewis.

If you didn't follow that, what I'm trying to say is that there's a bigger difference between VD and the next best TE than there is Hawk and the next best Olb.

I would personally like either one, I lean towards davis more because I don't want antonio bryant to have to be alex smith's go to guy.. I like him, but I think he needs a better target.



That makes more sense then peanut butter and jelly! great input and idea!

[DenverNiner]

And just remind me...that worst game where the D was on the field for 39 minutes. What was the result? No commentary about that one because it kinda screws your argument?

The D had 5 games in the entire season where they were on the pitch for over 35 minutes, including the 3 you posted above. Yes, our offence 3-and-outed a bit, but it's not like they did it every series.



I think "three and outed a bit" might be the understatement of the year:ohmy:

Yes for the 1st game we won against the Rams but:
A. We had a somewhat experienced QB at that time. Now we have Alex Smith. I think he'll be fine but he's not the strength of the offense

B. It was the first game of the season and our defense was healthy and rested. They posted sack after sack. A special teams punt return for TD and we had a surprise onside kick recovery. Don't kid yourself that our offense one that game.

[DenverNiner]

There's a fairly good supply of TEs who would, in other drafts, be considered very highly, certainly in the same league as Heath Miller, 1st rounder from last year. And here's a tip for you. Although all the draftnik sites may have anomalies, and odd picks, I would suggest that if they all say "Player X is really good and will be a star in the NFL", it's pretty likely that NFL scouts will have the same information.


So I'm confused Player X is really Davis right? Show me the critics that think Davis will not be a star? We tried to draft bottom of the pile TE's last year and got nothing. We could just as easy draft a LB later in the draft. Let Singletary (who, by the way, was a 2nd Rd pick) instill something in a LB with something to prove.
Hawk is a great prospect but I want an impact receiving threat and not many WR seem too good.

[DenverNiner]

Well...it is all about "making it" really, isn't it.



Not really when most of our 1st round draft picks have "made it" in the NFL but, in reality, 1st round draft picks have been pretty weak for us.

[Niner Man]

Dear Lord. Please let us get Either of these guys. Amen.

[utes04]

Davis

[Roaring Back]

Vd.

[Mr Spoons]

So I'm confused Player X is really Davis right? Show me the critics that think Davis will not be a star? We tried to draft bottom of the pile TE's last year and got nothing. We could just as easy draft a LB later in the draft. Let Singletary (who, by the way, was a 2nd Rd pick) instill something in a LB with something to prove.
Hawk is a great prospect but I want an impact receiving threat and not many WR seem too good.

Actually, I was commenting on Hawk. I had said that Hawk was a top 5 prospect etc on all the websites and you said something along the lines of so what, the NFL don't pay attention to all the Draftnik sites.

[kb4sf]

Dear Lord. Please let us get Either of these guys. Amen.

not with hawk just being an average pro... i think VD is the answer...

[SeVeN]

VD all the way baby! Guys like AJ Hawk come around just about every year. Guys like VD don't. Better take VD! :D

[kb4sf]

VD all the way baby! Guys like AJ Hawk come around just about every year. Guys like VD don't. Better take VD! :D

thank you!!!! numbers speak for themselves thats why they have the combine... lol.. i know his college numbers arent the greatest but that will all go away when we are talking about him 2-3 yrs from now in the pro bowl.. and that since mr. spoon will hate and respond on was out of trey wingo n the guys from the mock draft crew... lol

[_Jerden]

you know what all us VD fans forgot about AJ Hawk. He will be the leader of our defense for years. Instant contributor and future stalwart. We could put him in the middle and Ulbrich as a top utility backer. I am very split on this.
AJ is a much more sure pick with his ability, love for the game, Singletary, Nolan and Davis.
It would be a very smart draft pick.
or
Or do we want to hear "Smith to Davis!" Giving last years #1 a weapon to make effective.

[kb4sf]

you know what all us VD fans forgot about AJ Hawk. He will be the leader of our defense for years. Instant contributor and future stalwart. We could put him in the middle and Ulbrich as a top utility backer. I am very split on this.
AJ is a much more sure pick with his ability, love for the game, Singletary, Nolan and Davis.
It would be a very smart draft pick.
or
Or do we want to hear "Smith to Davis!" Giving last years #1 a weapon to make effective.

the only problem is that VD would have much more of an impact on the us overall than AJ would.. VD is the playmaker that we have been looking for and now we cant let him pass us!!! we can replace the LB'S later in the draft... personally i would take jimmy williams for our second but i know that they are alot of people here that would disagree with that pick... we will all see soon!

[_Jerden]

the only problem is that VD would have much more of an impact on the us overall than AJ would.. VD is the playmaker that we have been looking for and now we cant let him pass us!!! we can replace the LB'S later in the draft... personally i would take jimmy williams for our second but i know that they are alot of people here that would disagree with that pick... we will all see soon!

but if we are rebuilding then what better captain for our defense could we find. What defenders wouldnt want to play with Nolan Singletary and Hawk.

P.S.
I'm all about Vernon but Hawk is such a great pick as well

[Niner Nick]

Given the choice id like to see us take the duke but if we do miss out on him Hawk would be a massive plus to our team :sflogo:

[9errealist]

The one way to assure we get VD is to move up one more spot at 5. We should trade Harris and our 6th from GB's 5th heck we could have prob packaged our 2nd of next year and a WR for Walker.