Why not Ginn?

[max]

Have you guys seen Ginn's 9 minute video on Youtube?

Hi folks,
I'm a hated Rams fan. But fate has a sense of humor. My daughter moved out to SF a few years ago and is now engaged to a die hard Niners fan. I begrudginly approved. He's a great kid, so I'm overlooking the Niner thing. lol.

Anyway I've been surfing your site and noticed there hasn't been much interest in Ted Ginn.

I'm just curious why not. From a adversary's viewpoint, Ginn is the one guy I hope you don't get. He scares the heck out of a lot of Rams fans on our message boards.

Actually, I hoping Minny takes him before Nolan does. But it sounds like you guys want Willis or Carriker. I don't get it. Unless you trade up, you're not getting a major WR threat in the 2nd round and you don't have one now. I know WR has a high bust rate, but 2nd round WR has an even higher bust rate than first rounders. Anyway, I'm not here to flame, just curious what you guys are thinking.

max

[max]

No one player is as good as their highlights make them seem and simply judging a player based off a highlight tape doesn't lead to a full assessment on that player.

As for why not Ginn? I have no problems with him being drafted in the 3rd round due to his versatility but a team looking for someone to come in and make an impact at WR and fight for a #1 spot early on is wasting their time having Ginn being drafted to be that guy. Even if you look at the electrifying Steve Smith in Carolina he didn't earn the #1 spot for quite some time...

Are you saying you wouldn't trade you're #11 pick for Steve Smith?

Ginn is taller than Smith and has bigger hand than Smith. Actually, Ginn has bigger hands than Calvin Johnson.

Kiper has Ginn at #10 on his big board now. With all due respect, I think any talk of Ginn going in the 3rd round is nonsense.

[inuyasha]

I totally agree

[knightdreamer]

No one player is as good as their highlights make them seem and simply judging a player based off a highlight tape doesn't lead to a full assessment on that player.

As for why not Ginn? I have no problems with him being drafted in the 3rd round due to his versatility but a team looking for someone to come in and make an impact at WR and fight for a #1 spot early on is wasting their time having Ginn being drafted to be that guy. Even if you look at the electrifying Steve Smith in Carolina he didn't earn the #1 spot for quite some time...


Great point!

After CJ it is only time will tell situation. If the 49ers want immediate impact then Darrell Jackson is our man...

[sf49orr]

Ginn is not worth it. He doesn't have the body to hold up yet. He needs to hit the weight room hard and put on some muscle. He's got Todd Pinkston's body and we know what happened to him. I love Ginn's speed but we can't have him run fly patterns all day. At this point Ginn kind of reminds me Desmond Howard.

[Fez]

Have you guys seen Ginn's 9 minute video on Youtube?

Tell me it's an april fools joke... :thud:

[49ersRus]

Is Ginn even tough enough to play in the NFL? He got hurt celebrating with team mates at the college level, and still hasn't recovered enough to even run 40 yards for us. His claim to fame. What could put millions of dollars in his pocks!

How well would that kind of durability translate to the pro level?

[49ersRus]

you cannot knock on Ginn for this injury, it actually looks pretty painful.

I am not questioning the pain, the realness of his injury, or if its his fault. I am questioning how long it takes for him to recover from something like this. Its not like he doesn't have motivation to run. It could cost him $M's if he falls in the draft if he doesn't. Plus, its not about putting on pads and getting hit. Its just running 40 yards in shorts and a T-Shirt.

If he doesn't run, run well, and run before the draft it will hurt his draft status and raise flags on his reported speed and durability.

[Texicali blue]

well i know if my foot was bent backwards and under the weight of me plus a teammate i probably wouldn't run either. he was probably sitting on his couch with a boot on for a couple months and got out of shape. he now needs to rehab the foot as well as prepare for a workout, i mean he did play the last game of the college season.

no team is questioning his 40 time so him running or not running a 40 just doesn't matter for him. if you want to watch him run in a straight line just turn on his track film.

what teams will want to see from Ginn is change of direction drills and route running. if he can't push off and plant because that foot was bent backwards only a couple months ago, he won't be able to change direction well and really kill his draft stock.

so in conclusion, running a 40 for him won't change a thing. running poor routes at a workout and that ankle being a contributing factor will.

You're missing the point, I think.

Until he runs post-injury, teams will be worried that his best assett, his speed, is not what it once was.

There is no guarantee that his injury will NOT affect his speed, just as there is no guarantee that it WILL affect it, so it must be in doubt, right?

Therefore, it would be a highly risky pick, unless there is a history that WRs and KRs don't need their ankles at full strength to get a good push off the line of scrimmage, or that this type of injury is easy to recover from 100%.

[Texicali blue]

This is very true. Until he heals and can show that he still has his speed there will always be doubt about his best asset not being what it once was.

Example: Adrian Peterson was in question, until he proved after his return from injury that he still had the goods, and really impressed at the combines on top of that.

Had Ginn been able to do that, his status would be more certain. So, his injury came at a real bad time for him and interested teams, unless, the nature of this injury is that it's easy to bounce back from.

[Texicali blue]

he was a high risk pick before the injury. the reason is when you watch the guy all you really see is speed. i don't think any team will question his speed regardless if he runs. i think the issue is his change of direction. now that he hurt his ankle teams will test that ankle twice as hard to see if he is truly healthy.

along with that NFL players when are affected the entire season when they have a high ankle sprain which is what i think he had. if NFL players are given some slack for mildly spraining an ankle, you have to kinda give a guy atleast the benefit of the doubt when you see how badly his ankle was bent. when i see that picture i posted i completely understand why he has been out for so long.

BTW i haven't heard an update in a while but it was a few short weeks ago and it was reported he still had a boot on. if he has a boot on then a doctor is recommending that and not his fault either.


One thing to remember.

Speed is really the only assett that can NOT be taught.

And, he played well against some of the best talent in the NCAA when presented with the opportunity. While he may not be as well rounded as other WRs coming out, I didn't see him as being so bad he would fall to the third round, or even out of the first, until his injury.

[Texicali blue]

I don't completely believe the doubts are removed as his injury to his collarbone won't be truely tested until pads. I also believe teams are still worried about his durability but not to the point that they will dismiss his talents.

From what I understand about collarbone injuries, they actually become stronger after they heal(the bone gets thicker) so a reinjury is less likely to occur.

All I was trying to get accross was that his on the field performance is no longer in question, though his durability may still be.

[ftn49]

he was a high risk pick before the injury. the reason is when you watch the guy all you really see is speed. i don't think any team will question his speed regardless if he runs. i think the issue is his change of direction. now that he hurt his ankle teams will test that ankle twice as hard to see if he is truly healthy.

along with that NFL players when are affected the entire season when they have a high ankle sprain which is what i think he had. if NFL players are given some slack for mildly spraining an ankle, you have to kinda give a guy atleast the benefit of the doubt when you see how badly his ankle was bent. when i see that picture i posted i completely understand why he has been out for so long.

BTW i haven't heard an update in a while but it was a few short weeks ago and it was reported he still had a boot on. if he has a boot on then a doctor is recommending that and not his fault either.


I agree with everything your saying except the last part, there was reports that he could have gone back into the NC game, but didn't want to hurt his draft stock, and that came out right after the game, so I don't think is was misinformation being spread around by clubs wanting to draft him. Also people were expecting him to run at his pro day up until a day or two before when he announce he wouldn't be, and the same for the combine.

His durability is going to be a big question that makes him drop especially with his low wieght and slight build, imo.

[pepe]

He's way too sGinny. :ahh:

[ftn49]

i have seen no reports that echoed what your saying here. i mean he did wear a boot for months after that game. a couple weeks ago it was reported that he still had the boot on. i don't think anyone is questioning the severity of the injury if he still has a boot on.

BTW i think he only ran out at halftime in that game to morally support his team. his ankle was probably so swollen he didn't feel the pain yet which is the only reason he was half-decent to run out after halftime.

His ankle didn't seem swollen to me, they showed it constantly during the game, and they never reported during the game that he was out for it, they just said he was questionable to come back. That and the fact if he was really to hurt to come back they wouldn't have kept working on him, they would have just given him crutches and a boot to start with, imo.

And they reported it several different times on Sirius radio right after the game, I don't remember if I have seen written reports that say such, but then I haven't seen any that he was wearing a boot either. Although to be fair I haven't really been looking for those reports either.

[49ersRus]

I found an article relating to Ginn's injury at the NC game. No idea how credible it is, as the author stipulates, but since we have a thread on the topic here it is...
http://ncaafootball.aolsportsblog.com/2007/01/14/ugly-ted-ginn-jr-rumor/

If you click the bottom link it continues with the blog...
http://buckeyebattlecry.blogspot.com/2007/01/nasty-little-rumor.html

As you may or may not have known, Ted Ginn Jr has been playing all year with a fractured bone in his foot. Early reports discussed a bad toe, but were never explored in-depth.

Anyway, one play into the BCS Title Game, Roy Hall rolled up Ginn's foot and sent Ginn limping to the locker room for tests. Later in the quarter, Ginn came running back onto the sidelines, clearly anxious to return.

[CAG21]

One thing to remember.

Speed is really the only assett that can NOT be taught.

And, he played well against some of the best talent in the NCAA when presented with the opportunity. While he may not be as well rounded as other WRs coming out, I didn't see him as being so bad he would fall to the third round, or even out of the first, until his injury.

Agreed, good post.

Ginn needs to learn to beat press coverage, polish his route running, and increase his agility. He's not half as bad as people make him out to be though. He'll be picked in the 1st round by a team that doesn't need a huge impact at receiver right now, and can afford to groom him for a couple seasons.

[max]

Sounds like most of you guys wouldn't be happy with Ginn in the first round. I hope you get your wish. You won't see him in the 2nd round, never mind the 3rd.

If the Rams take him at #13, I'll be psyched. I think he is gonna be murder out there.

Ginn runs in 12 days. His OSU head coach reported that he ran a 4.37 over a week ago during training and it was a jog for Ginn. I expect him to run a sub 4.3. Ginn will not be one of the fastest guys in the NFL next year, he will be THE fastest player in the NFL next year.

Here's something from Rich Gosselin...
SPORTSDAY NFL Columnist:
Rick Gosselin writes about pro football for The Dallas Morning News.
04:06 AM CDT on Sunday, April 1, 2007
Big hands catch on
Wide receivers come in all sizes. Pro Bowler Steve Smith is 5-9, and Georgia Tech's Calvin Johnson, the top receiver in the 2007 draft, goes 6-5, 239 pounds. But hand size is critical at this position.

Bigger hands translate to more reliable hands on draft day. Nine-inch hands are good, 10-inch hands are better. Johnson has hands that measure 9¾. Ted Ginn Jr. of Ohio State is six inches shorter (5-11) than Johnson but has bigger hands. They measure 10 inches across.

[49ersRus]

If the Rams take him at #13, I'll be psyched. I think he is gonna be murder out there.

As a niner fan, if the Rams take him at #13 I would be psyched too. Just as long as you can't stop the run, I am happy!

[spankey538]

For everyone who doubts his ability. Go look at that Youtube. Highlight reel.:throw:

[max]

As a niner fan, if the Rams take him at #13 I would be psyched too. Just as long as you can't stop the run, I am happy!

Hey, most Rams fans want a Dlineman at #13 for sure. I think they are wrong.

You can get a run stuffing DT in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, you can get a possesion WR in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, you can get a tackling machine LB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, you will NOT get the fastest WR in the NFL in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

Devin Hester was taken in the 2nd round, but he is not as fast as Ginn; and Hester has no position outside of KR/PR. He is a pathetic DB. I think the Bears are trying him at WR now.

And I wonder just how many of your Niner fan buddies would be psyched to see Ginn in horns?

[SBbound49ers]

Hey, most Rams fans want a Dlineman at #13 for sure. I think they are wrong.

You can get a run stuffing DT in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, you can get a possesion WR in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, you can get a tackling machine LB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, you will NOT get the fastest WR in the NFL in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

Devin Hester was taken in the 2nd round, but he is not as fast as Ginn; and Hester has no position outside of KR/PR. He is a pathetic DB. I think the Bears are trying him at WR now.

And I wonder just how many of your Niner fan buddies would be psyched to see Ginn in horns?

Why would the Rams take a WR when they have Holt, Bruce, Bennett, McMichael, Klopfenstein and one of the best recieving backs in the league Steven Jackson.

[49ersRus]

Why would the Rams take a WR when they have Holt, Bruce, Bennett, McMichael, Klopfenstein and one of the best recieving backs in the league Steven Jackson.

They want Branch/Okoye. They probably won't get one of them unless we let them drop past us. He is just trying to play us for fools.

As if we would listen to a lambs fan...

[SBbound49ers]

They want Branch/Okoye. They probably won't get one of them unless we let them drop past us. He is just trying to play us for fools.

As if we would listen to a lambs fan...

I agree.........if Branch falls to them they'd be over him like Jimmy Kennedy.

[max]

Why would the Rams take a WR when they have Holt, Bruce, Bennett, McMichael, Klopfenstein and one of the best recieving backs in the league Steven Jackson.


Bruce is old, and Holt is over 30 and coming off knee surgery. So the Rams really don't have anywhere near the speed they used to have. Ginn would give them a huge shot in the arm in terms of breakaway speed.

[SBbound49ers]

You know Brandon Williams ran a 4.48 40. Simply trade your first rd pick to SF and they'll give you a guy with a 4.4 speed...

What an ignorant post. Havent you seen his youtube video?

Hester + Steve Smith

[CAG21]

You know Brandon Williams ran a 4.48 40. Simply trade your first rd pick to SF and they'll give you a guy with a 4.4 speed...

LOL, that'd be the deal of the century.

[CAG21]

What an ignorant post. Havent you seen his youtube video?

Hester + Steve Smith


:falldownlaugh:

In all seriousness though I like his potential, but I have a bad feeling he's going to turn out to be Desmond Howard part deux.

[SBbound49ers]

On a more serious note, Ginn and his long legs remind me of Reggie Williams who up to this point hasnt shown much. Williams, like Ginn, is a long strider which really kills route running ability.

If you've ever watched Reggie Williams you can see his flalling (sp?) legs go all over the place. He and Ginn both lack the ability to plant and cut which is something an NFL WR must be able to do.

If you have long legs you better have a ridiculous physical build. TO comes to mind as a long strider but makes up for it with his strength and speed.

[max]

I agree.........if Branch falls to them they'd be over him like Jimmy Kennedy.

That's what I'm afraid of. Branch sure sounds like another Kennedy to me.

And as I said, most Rams fans want a DT, especially Okoye. For me it's a tough pick between Okoye and Ginn. I'm happy with either one. But I take Ginn over Branch all day. Carriker is more of a 3-4 DE, he doesn't work for us. And Willis is a LB, you get those in the 2nd round. If Minny takes Ginn and you guys take Okoye, I'll be miffed. But if Miami takes Okoye and you guys take Branch, Carriker, or Willis, and we take Ginn, I'm real happy.

And nothing I or you say is gonna change what the Niners or Rams do in the draft.

Remember the only time the Rams ever won anything it was because of a great offense, that is their tradition. Every team has an image, the Bears win with defense, so do the Giants. The Rams win championships when they have unstoppable offenses even going back to the 40's and 50's.

Really the Niners have an offense based tradition. Sure Ronnie Lott was a great one, but your offense with Walsh, Montana, Young and Rice were your meal ticket.

So you guys think what you want. But I don't see the Niner's being a major threat until they get a big time WR.

[MisfitZ]

His ankle didn't seem swollen to me, they showed it constantly during the game, and they never reported during the game that he was out for it, they just said he was questionable to come back. That and the fact if he was really to hurt to come back they wouldn't have kept working on him, they would have just given him crutches and a boot to start with, imo.

And they reported it several different times on Sirius radio right after the game, I don't remember if I have seen written reports that say such, but then I haven't seen any that he was wearing a boot either. Although to be fair I haven't really been looking for those reports either.

having had an ankle injury recently from hoping my fence and landing wrong i was ok to walk on it and run for the rest of that day it hurt a lil bit but i was ok later when i went to bed and woke up i was in so much pain i couldnt stand so yea thats probably way also my ankle wasnt swollen untill the next day and for the next month or two it still bothered me and it was only a moderate ankle sprain

[SB49er4life]

Are you saying you wouldn't trade you're #11 pick for Steve Smith?

Ginn is taller than Smith and has bigger hand than Smith. Actually, Ginn has bigger hands than Calvin Johnson.

Kiper has Ginn at #10 on his big board now. With all due respect, I think any talk of Ginn going in the 3rd round is nonsense.

Ginn does NOT offer what Steve Smith does as a WR, period. If you search the college football forums, you'll find threads chalk full of information on why.

[94949'er]

Sounds like most of you guys wouldn't be happy with Ginn in the first round. I hope you get your wish. You won't see him in the 2nd round, never mind the 3rd.

If the Rams take him at #13, I'll be psyched. I think he is gonna be murder out there.


please, be my guest. take him in the 1st while we all laugh.

[SBbound49ers]

Reggie Williams is built like a TE and he has long legs because he is 6'4. i don't see the comparisan. when i see Ginn i see Chris Chambers part deux. they are both right around 6'0 but the majority of that is his long legs.

I see long legs that dont work well in quick cuts.

[whoz_hott_08]

Have you guys seen Ginn's 9 minute video on Youtube?

Hi folks,
I'm a hated Rams fan. But fate has a sense of humor. My daughter moved out to SF a few years ago and is now engaged to a die hard Niners fan. I begrudginly approved. He's a great kid, so I'm overlooking the Niner thing. lol.

Anyway I've been surfing your site and noticed there hasn't been much interest in Ted Ginn.

I'm just curious why not. From a adversary's viewpoint, Ginn is the one guy I hope you don't get. He scares the heck out of a lot of Rams fans on our message boards.

Actually, I hoping Minny takes him before Nolan does. But it sounds like you guys want Willis or Carriker. I don't get it. Unless you trade up, you're not getting a major WR threat in the 2nd round and you don't have one now. I know WR has a high bust rate, but 2nd round WR has an even higher bust rate than first rounders. Anyway, I'm not here to flame, just curious what you guys are thinking.

max

but dont nobody seem to see what we both see in ginn thatz why i want nolan to pick him

[whoz_hott_08]

it's called a highlight film for a reason....


:nonono:

we will get ted ginn jr.

[Bizzy]

how fast ginn is people are wondering? the forty time gives you a estimate but that just a straight line. chad johnson ran a 4.6 has anyone watched him play. he's WAY faster than a 4.6. but anyways reggie nelson ran a 4.35

now watch the bowl game and watch that kick return. Nelson had a angle on ginn but ginn still flew by him. Nelson never came close to catching up. he is worth a first round pick. Holmes from Pitt was a first round pick. Ginn is faster and is more dangerous than holmes is. he's a play maker. He can change the game with one touch. when i read someone saying he's a 3rd round pick, that was one of the most rediclous things i've ever heard. He MIGHT be a 2nd but early. He'll be more dangerous than Mecham or Bowe. he's a better playmaker than calvin. Just isnt a better all around. mecham or bowe aren't going to be number one WR either. So drafting one of those instead of ginn would make no sense.

[SBbound49ers]

how fast ginn is people are wondering? the forty time gives you a estimate but that just a straight line. chad johnson ran a 4.6 has anyone watched him play. he's WAY faster than a 4.6. but anyways reggie nelson ran a 4.35

now watch the bowl game and watch that kick return. Nelson had a angle on ginn but ginn still flew by him. Nelson never came close to catching up. he is worth a first round pick. Holmes from Pitt was a first round pick. Ginn is faster and is more dangerous than holmes is. he's a play maker. He can change the game with one touch. when i read someone saying he's a 3rd round pick, that was one of the most rediclous things i've ever heard. He MIGHT be a 2nd but early. He'll be more dangerous than Mecham or Bowe. he's a better playmaker than calvin. Just isnt a better all around. mecham or bowe aren't going to be number one WR either. So drafting one of those instead of ginn would make no sense.

Another speed lover...........

Ginn is a big play guy but thats his problem. He'll make one catch for 50 yards and then a 5 yard hook and thats it. We already have a guy like that, Ashley Lelie.

[max]

http://www.youtube.com/w/Teddy-Ginn-Highlights?v=WzUvsYOStCk&search=buckeyes

This show that he is more than speed.

He has balance, agility, escapability, the ability to accelerate instantly while changing directions.

[Rexi]

I would love Ginn. He's probably the most explosive player in the draft. i have confidence he can come back from injury.

He gets ridiculous separaton.:wub:

[max]

where do you see agility in that video? where do you see any route running? where do you see anything over the middle? where do you see a difficult catch?

all you see is straight line speed. he is so think and fragile those arm tackles he breaks will not be broken tackles in the nfl. this is why so few WR's are good at yac.

Well, maybe all YOU see is straight line speed but I and many others see agility.

And I didn't say anything good about route running. That needs a lot of work, for sure.

Listen, I don't think the Niners or Rams are taking him. I got a feeling Ginn is going to the Vikes or Dolphins. We will both pass on him. The Rams will pass because our D is pathetic and the Niners will pass because you have no one to coach and mentor a talent like Ginn. Nolan is no Walsh. And your current WR's are dolts.

[SB49er4life]

Well, maybe all YOU see is straight line speed but I and many others see agility.

And I didn't say anything good about route running. That needs a lot of work, for sure.

Listen, I don't think the Niners or Rams are taking him. I got a feeling Ginn is going to the Vikes or Dolphins. We will both pass on him. The Rams will pass because our D is pathetic and the Niners will pass because you have no one to coach and mentor a talent like Ginn. Nolan is no Walsh. And your current WR's are dolts.

He's made some good moves on returns or what not, but really, it's nothing special that you would marvel at. He's not gonna get that many blown coverages and slower defenders in the NFL. He simply does not have the agility that Dante Hall, Reggie Bush, or Devin Hester have.

[dhimiter]

Well, maybe all YOU see is straight line speed but I and many others see agility.

And I didn't say anything good about route running. That needs a lot of work, for sure.

Listen, I don't think the Niners or Rams are taking him. I got a feeling Ginn is going to the Vikes or Dolphins. We will both pass on him. The Rams will pass because our D is pathetic and the Niners will pass because you have no one to coach and mentor a talent like Ginn. Nolan is no Walsh. And your current WR's are dolts.


Wow wow wow home boy, Nolan is no walsh, but who is ,but we have the best Recievers coach in the game, THE BEST! He couldn't even help Ginn.

I will compare Ginn to the one player I thought, when I was young and dumb would be the next Jerry Rice, He went to Cincinatti, Peter Warrick.
Ginn Position: WR
Height 6-0
Weight: 180

Warrick Position: WR http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187401
Height: 5-11
Weight: 195


Ginn just might be a good even great Returner, for the two years he plays. He will be injuried often, he is fragile, and weak. Oh ya kid got speed for days but so does everyone else in the NFL and Stregth and Size. I would only be content with him in the second round as a kick return specialist. The only player in the draft I don't want is Ginn.

[Bizzy]

everyone know greg jennings from GB? yea all he was was a player who had speed. He made 2 to 3 game changing plays a game. and nelson ran a 4.35 and had a good angle at ginn. ashley lelie is actually more of just a burner. Has anyone actually watched him play be4? besides last year. the year be4 he actually made catches down the middle. Ginn has agility. he makes some nice moves. he faster than any Corner in the league besides hall maybe. So then you move back so we throw quick screens and passes to him and he'll be dangerous with room. then you can make the agrument that their just press him with saftey help. Isn't that what we want. That means one less guy in the box for gore!!! Route running can be taught. I guess even back in the day randy moss was trash, i don't remember him making to many catches down the middle.

[Juiced]

if Ginn is there in the 2nd - then you pull the trigger

but id almost rather have gonzales

[SFmiraje]

About Ginn's injury, I've had my ankle bent like that before and I couldn't walk on it right for at least 4 months, and I wasn't in the same shape that Ginn was.

As for Ginn getting drafted...I see him going to Jacksonville at 17 because they need a WR with some speed, all they have are tall guys that can outsize an opposing CB.

Ginn compared to Steve Smith...you can only compare them based on size. Ginn doesn't have anywhere near the talent that Steve Smith has because Smith is already experienced in the league, has worked his way into the #1 WR role and can work all parts of the field...Ginn can only run in a straight line, he can't run routes (I'm a Michigan fan, so I've watched the OSU games to scout what my boys would go up against) and he can't run routes all that well.

Ginn is explosive on the return game, no question. But the NFL is bigger and faster than the Big 10 and the rest of the NCAA and Ginn won't make those moves or find those lanes as easily in the NFL.

If he was available in the 2nd round when we pick again, I'd still take the USC Steve Smith before Ginn, but I wouldn't argue too much if we did grab Ginn with the 10th pick in RD2. But in all honesty, I don't want him on the 49ers team...unless he did fall to the 3rd (and we already drafted a return WR in the 3rd round last year)

If the Rams draft Ginn, thank you. All we gotta worry about then is if Spencer or whoever can cover him on a GO or FLY pattern.

[Rexi]

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7979/tedginnjruo3.png

:wub: Ginn

I can't wait to see this guy in the NFL. He be a RAC monster. :jay:

[Rexi]

Just like Raghib was...

It's possible with any pick. The draft is a crapshoot. Hell even the infallible Calvin Johnson pushes off too much. You run a risk with every player you draft.

I'll take my chances with the most explosive player in the country.

[Rexi]

name the last guy that was named the most explosive guy in the country that actually panned out in the NFL? were any of those guys worth 1st rounders?



i think not...

It's pretty early to call Reggie Bush but it seems he's adjusting to the game nicely.

[Bizzy]

i think Lt was named expolsive. vick to and a guy name barry sanders. but yea none of them were worth a first round:wacko:

[max]

Thanks for the insight guys.

Enjoyed the debate.

max

[SB49er4life]

plus i think we both know Bush is a special athlete and player. he would most likely be a top 10 draft pick whether he played WR or RB in college. he truly is a special kid with much better hands, strength, and agility than Ginn. i don't see much of a comparisan.

Ya, Bush is a bad example because he had polished all around football skills + crazy speed/agility. You can't say the same thing about Ginn, who showed little other than wild speed.

[SB49er4life]

Jett
Ismail
Warrick
Howard
Troy Williamson
Roddy White
Jerome Mathis
Tatum Bell
Bethel Johnson
Ashley Lelie
Andre Davis
Trung Canidate


...just to name a few. see in every single draft you see a guy or a couple guys that are seen as 'explosive' players. the problem is after that 'explosion' they offer little to nothing else. a 1-dimensional guy doesn't succeed in the NFL. nobody can doubt Ginn's world class speed but after that he is just like the guy in the list above. no special hands, route running, or strength to get off the line.

Ginn is too much of a boom or bust guy for a team like ours to take a risk on when we still have so many needs. as a slot WR he could be very very effective but i seriously doubt he ever develops into more than a 3rd WR who returns punts.

You know whats funny ? In terms of production, Ginn was really nothing special, not even on his own team; he'd have a big time highlight every couple weeks, and thats it. When he didn't make highlights, he did little else.

[SBbound49ers]

You know whats funny ? In terms of production, Ginn was really nothing special, not even on his own team; he'd have a big time highlight every couple weeks, and thats it. When he didn't make highlights, he did little else.

This is an excellent point. If he cant dominate on the college level he stands to have little chance of doing so at the next level.

Career Statistics
Year GP Rec Yds YPC TD
2004 12 25 359 14.4 2
2005 12 51 803 15.7 4
2006 13 59 781 13.2 9
Totals 37 135 1,943 14.4 15

I dont see Ginn being much better than Ashley Lelie. A good deep ball threat but wont bring much more than that.

[SB49er4life]

This is an excellent point. If he cant dominate on the college level he stands to have little chance of doing so at the next level.

Career Statistics
Year GP Rec Yds YPC TD
2004 12 25 359 14.4 2
2005 12 51 803 15.7 4
2006 13 59 781 13.2 9
Totals 37 135 1,943 14.4 15

I dont see Ginn being much better than Ashley Lelie. A good deep ball threat but wont bring much more than that.

And Ashley Lelie is much bigger than Ginn, as well. We got guys who can stretch the field and go deep; I don't know where people get the misconception that just because we run a vertical offense, ONLY fast WR's can do anything in it.

[dhimiter]

This is an excellent point. If he cant dominate on the college level he stands to have little chance of doing so at the next level.

Career Statistics
Year GP Rec Yds YPC TD
2004 12 25 359 14.4 2
2005 12 51 803 15.7 4
2006 13 59 781 13.2 9
Totals 37 135 1,943 14.4 15

I dont see Ginn being much better than Ashley Lelie. A good deep ball threat but wont bring much more than that.

This is great stats in 3 years he put up mediocore numbers and all of 15 TD's great production.

I hate this kid sorry I am so tired of hearing all the mess about how he will be good because "oh man he is so fast" Speed is great and Unfortunitly means only so much if you don't have all the other skills nessasary.

Before you can rack up yards after catch you have to Catch.
Before you can get a recieving TD you need to be where your supposed to to get the ball.

[Rexi]

Sorry but if you are attempting to say Ginn is the most explosive player in the country I'd like for you to explain how you came to that conclusion and use facts not just opinion based information.I'm saying he is the most explosive player in the country because no one else in the country (unless some is slipping my mind) that rivals his speed, acceleration, vision, agility in the open field. He gets separation that is unreal. And in the NFL, separation is what you need from a receiver.

I don't really think there is much of a contest for "most explosive player in the country". It's Ginn.

[mrTgo49ers]

When is Ginn's Pro Day exactly. I certainly hope that we dont pick him, in fact I hope that he does bad enough that most teams think they can get WRs in round 2 that are just as good as him and Jarrett, thus droing a great WR to us at #42.

[Rexi]

http://www.dailycal.org/images/art/08.29.receiver.jpg Boo Jarrett:down:

[SB49er4life]

I'm saying he is the most explosive player in the country because no one else in the country (unless some is slipping my mind) that rivals his speed, acceleration, vision, agility in the open field. He gets separation that is unreal. And in the NFL, separation is what you need from a receiver.

I don't really think there is much of a contest for "most explosive player in the country". It's Ginn.

I'll give you speed and MAYBE acceleration; I'm not sure he gets into top speed as quickly as some other guys, even . He has "vision" in the sense that he's not blind; most of the big plays he got there was like 1/3 - 1/2 of the field unattended for him to run through; it's not as if he was seeing things before they developed or anything.

There is nothing special about his agility, really; I've yet to see him make any kinda cut or shake that I don't think most 100 other players in the country couldn't make. Agility has very little to do with straight line track speed.

Separation comes from running good routes, selling fakes, and being quick in/out of your cuts; what your talkin about is something different. He's got an excellent 2nd gear, but you gotta get open and catch the ball before you even THINK about kickin into 2nd gear.

Explosion and speed aren't necessarily one in the same, either. Meachem and CJ are both more explosive than Ginn; your talkin about guys with about 30-60 lbs heavier that might not even give up .1 of a second in straight ahead speed, thats more explosion right there; it takes waaaaay more power to move that much more weight and barely giving up hardly any speed.

[Rexi]

I'll give you speed and MAYBE acceleration; I'm not sure he gets into top speed as quickly as some other guys, even . He has "vision" in the sense that he's not blind; most of the big plays he got there was like 1/3 - 1/2 of the field unattended for him to run through; it's not as if he was seeing things before they developed or anything.

There is nothing special about his agility, really; I've yet to see him make any kinda cut or shake that I don't think most 100 other players in the country couldn't make. Agility has very little to do with straight line track speed.I'm going to disagree with you there. I think he gets to top speed exceptionly quickly. I like his vision as well, on a return (against MSU I believe) He bounced a return outside that showed good vison and his cut was very fluid.


Separation comes from running good routes, selling fakes, and being quick in/out of your cuts; what your talkin about is something different. He's got an excellent 2nd gear, but you gotta get open and catch the ball before you even THINK about kickin into 2nd gear. He got separation because his speed is incredible, and it gets increasingly hard to defend in the NFL.

Explosion and speed aren't necessarily one in the same, either. Meachem and CJ are both more explosive than Ginn; your talkin about guys with about 30-60 lbs heavier that might not even give up .1 of a second in straight ahead speed, thats more explosion right there; it takes waaaaay more power to move that much more weight and barely giving up hardly any speed.I was talking about explosion in terms of RAC ability and being dangerous when the ball is in your hands. Ginn's probably #1 in those respects.

Again I'll refer you to Gil Brandt who said on game film Ginn looks to have the same speed as Gonzales and expects him to run in the 4.4 range, and again Brandon Williams also ran in the 4.4 range this would make Calvin more explosive based on your emphasis on speed and acceleration. Add to that the 11ft+ standing long jump of Calvin and that will show you how much more explosive he is in his glutes and quads...Are you seriously comparing Ted Ginn's football speed to Gonzales and Brandon Williams? I'm not sure where Brandt is getting this 4.4 from.

Even if that is what he ran the 40 times can be deceiving. Vernon Davis ran a 4.38 but he's not at that level on the field.

[SB49er4life]

I'm going to disagree with you there. I think he gets to top speed exceptionly quickly. I like his vision as well, on a return (against MSU I believe) He bounced a return outside that showed good vison and his cut was very fluid.
He got separation because his speed is incredible, and it gets increasingly hard to defend in the NFL.
I was talking about explosion in terms of RAC ability and being dangerous when the ball is in your hands. Ginn's probably #1 in those respects.

Are you seriously comparing Ted Ginn's football speed to Gonzales and Brandon Williams? I'm not sure where Brandt is getting this 4.4 from.

Even if that is what he ran the 40 times can be deceiving. Vernon Davis ran a 4.38 but he's not at that level on the field.

From what I've seen, he shows his REAL burners after he's in full stride; not to say that he doesn't have great acceleration, just that I don't if I'd put him head and shoulders above everyone else. But I'll be fair and level with you there since it goes hand in hand with speed.

Vision is just not that special, I'm sorry. Sure, you can pick out a few big plays throughout his career in which he displayed good vision, but not consistently or often enough to classify it as anything of a major strength or better than other top prospects at RB or WR.

If you want RAC ability, he's only really effective when he's got a ton of space to operate after the catch; he won't get caught from behind, and will beat his man to a spot down field. But in the NFL, when he's guarded more closely, he doesn't have the short area stop n go acceleration thats going to make defenders miss.

Football speed, meaning everything considered, stop, go, shake, bake, side to side, I'll take Gonzalez over Ginn. Ginn is king outrunning someone in a line, but it's not an accident that Gonzalez makes more plays and is more productive than Ginn when he's not even all that much bigger.

[Rexi]

From what I've seen, he shows his REAL burners after he's in full stride; not to say that he doesn't have great acceleration, just that I don't if I'd put him head and shoulders above everyone else. But I'll be fair and level with you there since it goes hand in hand with speed.

Vision is just not that special, I'm sorry. Sure, you can pick out a few big plays throughout his career in which he displayed good vision, but not consistently or often enough to classify it as anything of a major strength or better than other top prospects at RB or WR.

If you want RAC ability, he's only really effective when he's got a ton of space to operate after the catch; he won't get caught from behind, and will beat his man to a spot down field. But in the NFL, when he's guarded more closely, he doesn't have the short area stop n go acceleration thats going to make defenders miss.

Football speed, meaning everything considered, stop, go, shake, bake, side to side, I'll take Gonzalez over Ginn. Ginn is king outrunning someone in a line, but it's not an accident that Gonzalez makes more plays and is more productive than Ginn when he's not even all that much bigger.I really disagree with most of your asessments here... so I guess we'll agree to disagree.

There isn't really much else to do.

[Bizzy]

HAHA ginn as fast as gonzlaz and brandon williams.... please... He just ran a 4.37 in a jog that was reported. that faster than both of the guys did in a sprint.

[SB49er4life]

HAHA ginn as fast as gonzlaz and brandon williams.... please... He just ran a 4.37 in a jog that was reported. that faster than both of the guys did in a sprint.

What a coincidence, I did, too !

[danz49r]

Great point!

After CJ it is only time will tell situation. If the 49ers want immediate impact then Darrell Jackson is our man...

Darrell Jackson isn't good enough to carry Ginns jock strap.

[danz49r]

Of course not Brandon Williams displayed better hands in College and Gonsales is considered a WR while Ginn will be used as a return with some spot duty as a wr...i.e. the other 2 are expected to consistently earn playing Time at their position of choice.

GONZALES COULDN'T DO CRAP IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME ONCE GINN LEFT THE GAME. IT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT GINN MADE TROY SMITH. LOOK I'VE BEEN A NINERS FAN FOR OVER 25 YEARS AND I LIVE IN COLUMBUS OHIO GINN WILL BE SOMEWHAT OF A WORK IN PROGESS BUT HE WILL BE A STUD. WE NEED A WR BAD. BATTLE IS NOT A #2. GINN AS A ROOKIE WOULD BE BETTER THAN BATTLE IS NOW. BUT I DO THINK WE ARE IN NEED OF A PASS RUSHER IN THIS YEARS DRAFT BUT IF WE WENT WITH GINN I WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT.

[SBbound49ers]

GONZALES COULDN'T DO CRAP IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME ONCE GINN LEFT THE GAME. IT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT GINN MADE TROY SMITH. LOOK I'VE BEEN A NINERS FAN FOR OVER 25 YEARS AND I LIVE IN COLUMBUS OHIO GINN WILL BE SOMEWHAT OF A WORK IN PROGESS BUT HE WILL BE A STUD. WE NEED A WR BAD. BATTLE IS NOT A #2. GINN AS A ROOKIE WOULD BE BETTER THAN BATTLE IS NOW. BUT I DO THINK WE ARE IN NEED OF A PASS RUSHER IN THIS YEARS DRAFT BUT IF WE WENT WITH GINN I WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT.

Ginn is no where near Battles level.

Ginn couldnt get seperation in college and Battle can do that in the NFL. Battle is light years ahead of Ginn.

[Rexi]

Ginn is no where near Battles level.

Ginn couldnt get seperation in college and Battle can do that in the NFL. Battle is light years ahead of Ginn.

Ginn couldn't get separation?:ok:

[SBbound49ers]

Ginn couldn't get separation?:ok:

Hes a deep ball threat and thats it. He cant run the intermediate routes. He wont be any better than Ashley Lelie whos a slot WR.

Anthony Gonzalez is a better prospect than Ginn. Ginn is one dimensional where as Gonzalez has good speed, can move in open field and most importantly can get open with his route running and cuts......unlike Ginn who will run fly routes all day.




Next time a resemeblance of a real argument would be nice rather than questioning what I said followed by a smiley.

[Rexi]

Hes a deep ball threat and thats it. He cant run the intermediate routes. He wont be any better than Ashley Lelie whos a slot WR.

Anthony Gonzalez is a better prospect than Ginn. Ginn is one dimensional where as Gonzalez has good speed, can move in open field and most importantly can get open with his route running and cuts......unlike Ginn who will run fly routes all day.Well this is all pretty much BS... I think Ginn can create nearly any place on the field. He's also an insane RAC guy.

Hell TO is one-dimensional... but he still dominates because he does what he does well better than nearly anyone else. Ginn is similar in the that fashion.

He's going to be an uncatchable home-run threat and when he has the ball in his hands in space he'll be one of the most dangerous players in the league. I don't understand where the criticisms of his route running even come from.




Next time a resemeblance of a real argument would be nice rather than questioning what I said followed by a smiley.
I didn't feel that your post deserved much more respect.

[SBbound49ers]

Well this is all pretty much BS... I think Ginn can create nearly any place on the field. He's also an insane RAC guy.

Hell TO is one-dimensional... but he still dominates because he does what he does well better than nearly anyone else. Ginn is similar in the that fashion.

He's going to be an uncatchable home-run threat and when he has the ball in his hands in space he'll be one of the most dangerous players in the league. I don't understand where the criticisms of his route running even come from.


I didn't feel that your post deserved much more respect.

Its BS because you feel otherwise........nice tumble start.

TO is not one-dimensional. :rolleyes2: How could anyone who watches him think that? Hes got terrific speed, uses his body as well as anyone and can run over most defenders. Plus, hes good in space, as good as Ginn.

Ginn is one dimensional and to think he'll be a star based off of one characterisitic that will be matched almost constantly at the next level is wrong.....IMO.

The criticism of his route running comes into play for this complex reason.........brace yourself for this one...........he cant seperate underneath from defenders. Theres a difference between deep seperation coming from speed and sepereration from underneath routes which is created by precise route running. Ginn never had more than 59 catches for a reason.......he can only run by guys, he cant run routes well and thats due in part to his long legs. He averaged YPC of 14.4, 15.7 and 13.2 due to his lack of ability to seperate. But hey, if hes fast what else do ya need!

Ginn is the next Ashley Lelie and thats explains why you feel the way you do.......arguing with someone sporting an Ashley Lelie avatar is obviously going to blindly say Ginn will be "one of the most dangerous players in the league." News flash : Theres a good reason why we were the only team seriously considering Lelie.

Is that clear or should I re-write in crayon for you?

[Rexi]

Its BS because you feel otherwise........nice tumble start.

TO is not one-dimensional. :rolleyes2: How could anyone who watches him think that? Hes got terrific speed, uses his body as well as anyone and can run over most defenders. Plus, hes good in space, as good as Ginn.

Ginn is one dimensional and to think he'll be a star based off of one characterisitic that will be matched almost constantly at the next level is wrong.....IMO.

The criticism of his route running comes into play for this complex reason.........brace yourself for this one...........he cant seperate underneath from defenders. Theres a difference between deep seperation coming from speed and sepereration from underneath routes which is created by precise route running. Ginn never had more than 59 catches for a reason.......he can only run by guys, he cant run routes well and thats due in part to his long legs. He averaged YPC of 14.4, 15.7 and 13.2 due to his lack of ability to seperate. But hey, if hes fast what else do ya need!

Ginn is the next Ashley Lelie and thats explains why you feel the way you do.......arguing with someone sporting an Ashley Lelie avatar is obviously going to blindly say Ginn will be "one of the most dangerous players in the league." News flash : Theres a good reason why we were the only team seriously considering Lelie.

Is that clear or should I re-write in crayon for you?Yes I expected this, more made up BS... There really is no point in responding to most of it. So I guess were done.

[SBbound49ers]

Yes I expected this, more made up BS... There really is no point in responding to most of it. So I guess were done.

I have nothing further to say but Im gonna bump this to further your embarassment.

:hunter:

BTW, Ginn doesnt carry any more value than another one dimensional speedster.............Sinorice Moss who went early 2nd. Right where I think Ginn should go.

[Bizzy]

randy moss was one dimensional and he dominated the league. FAST and only a long threat. And the 3 or 4 plays he made a game made the difference for the viking. Ginn is more dangerous RAC than moss and might be even faster than moss was ever. Every one that is bashing ashley leile has anyone seen him play? 2 years ago he look better than battle has ever. Last year he was in Atlanta and battle wouldn't even exist in atlanta. Vernon by the way doesn't run a lot of deep patterns. The only time he ran deep this year is when he was iso alone on the right side. most his patters were crossing patterns or out patterns. So with a guy like ginn opening up the field well leave davis with more room to make things happen and the less people in the box to stop gore. OR do you guys think i'm wrong?

[Bizzy]

I have nothing further to say but Im gonna bump this to further your embarassment.

:hunter:

BTW, Ginn doesnt carry any more value than another one dimensional speedster.............Sinorice Moss who went early 2nd. Right where I think Ginn should go.

i'm pretty sure sontonio homles went first round. He made good plays on Special teams and starte to really come around the 2nd half of the year. Ginn was the better out of them 2. So i don't see how he wouldn't go first

[Blong4Ever]

first of all this is a horrible comparisan. Randy came into the NFL and could separate deep like no other Wr maybe in history. Ginn does not get that same separation deep. Moss also has tremendous hands whereas Ginn does not. and the most important thing about Moss is he wasn't 1-dimensional, Moss was an amazing redzone target. he was unstoppable in the redzone the way he wins jumpballs. Ginn is not a redzone threat.

the Ginn and Moss comparisan is bogus.

True, I'll say this no as far as talent goes Moss may be the most talented WR to enter the NFL. If you're going to compare Ginn to somebody it would be Dante Hall.

[yay area]

he has good speed but i need a tall wide out with hands plus ginn is a return specialist that should go late 1st rd and if you think about it will ginn be better than Devin Hester who went in the 2nd rd last year na na

[SB49er4life]

randy moss was one dimensional and he dominated the league. FAST and only a long threat. And the 3 or 4 plays he made a game made the difference for the viking. Ginn is more dangerous RAC than moss and might be even faster than moss was ever. Every one that is bashing ashley leile has anyone seen him play? 2 years ago he look better than battle has ever. Last year he was in Atlanta and battle wouldn't even exist in atlanta. Vernon by the way doesn't run a lot of deep patterns. The only time he ran deep this year is when he was iso alone on the right side. most his patters were crossing patterns or out patterns. So with a guy like ginn opening up the field well leave davis with more room to make things happen and the less people in the box to stop gore. OR do you guys think i'm wrong?

Randy Moss is a lot bigger than Ginn, MUCH better hands, much stronger, and an excellent RZ target. So its not a matter of opinion; other than speed, no comparison to Moss.

[SBbound49ers]

i'm pretty sure sontonio homles went first round. He made good plays on Special teams and starte to really come around the 2nd half of the year. Ginn was the better out of them 2. So i don't see how he wouldn't go first

Holmes was much more polished than Ginn.

Heisman trophy winners go undrafted. Just cause they're good in college doesnt mean that'll translate to NFL success.

[SFmiraje]

i'm pretty sure sontonio homles went first round. He made good plays on Special teams and starte to really come around the 2nd half of the year. Ginn was the better out of them 2. So i don't see how he wouldn't go first

thing is...you quoted him when he mentioned Sinorice Moss, not Holmes. So...ummmmmmm, huh?



Quote by Bizzy:
randy moss was one dimensional and he dominated the league. FAST and only a long threat. And the 3 or 4 plays he made a game made the difference for the viking. Ginn is more dangerous RAC than moss and might be even faster than moss was ever. Every one that is bashing ashley leile has anyone seen him play? 2 years ago he look better than battle has ever. Last year he was in Atlanta and battle wouldn't even exist in atlanta. Vernon by the way doesn't run a lot of deep patterns. The only time he ran deep this year is when he was iso alone on the right side. most his patters were crossing patterns or out patterns. So with a guy like ginn opening up the field well leave davis with more room to make things happen and the less people in the box to stop gore. OR do you guys think i'm wrong?

Randy Moss one dimensional??? Okay, he was a speed guy...with hands that could catch anything, an amazing vertical...meaning he could out jump anyone...and was a threat in the redzone like no other. Yep, he was one-dimensional.

Lelie---I have seen him play. In Atlanta, he was the one that was invisible. Battle could have done a great job in ATL, but that's hard to say with Vick as the QB. In Denver, they wanted him to be able to run routes when he is almost strictly a straight line, FLY or GO route runner. I think he'll be okay here, but not great.

Vernon---ummmm, he's a TE. Of course he's not gonna to a lot of deep patterns. TE's don't do a lot of deep patterns, they do the crossing routes, the dump off's, the inside slants over the middle, and the quick out routes while the WR draws the CB and S on their deeper routes.

Ginn---NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. and......NO. Sorry, but only way I'd be okay with Ginn was at the end of the 2nd or 3rd round, not anywhere in the first considering our defense still needs help and the Oline is gonna need some fresh meat when Smiley is traded. Sorry, but having Ginn and Lelie on the field turns us into the Raiders, and you've seen how well they've done with just speed guys on the field. Hell, even the Rams a few years ago (when they were the Greatest Show on Turf) and had all the "speed"...Holt and Bruce could run routes everywhere on the field, not just straight line.

[SFmiraje]

GONZALES COULDN'T DO CRAP IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME ONCE GINN LEFT THE GAME. IT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT GINN MADE TROY SMITH. LOOK I'VE BEEN A NINERS FAN FOR OVER 25 YEARS AND I LIVE IN COLUMBUS OHIO GINN WILL BE SOMEWHAT OF A WORK IN PROGESS BUT HE WILL BE A STUD. WE NEED A WR BAD. BATTLE IS NOT A #2. GINN AS A ROOKIE WOULD BE BETTER THAN BATTLE IS NOW. BUT I DO THINK WE ARE IN NEED OF A PASS RUSHER IN THIS YEARS DRAFT BUT IF WE WENT WITH GINN I WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT.

Ginn made Troy Smith???? So, what happened with the OSU defense doing their jobs? What about Antonio Pittman? Anthony Gonzalez? What about the rest of the guys out there that bailed Troy out when he needed help? What about all that room Ginn had on the kick returns against mediocre college special teams...those were opened up by the blockers, not Ginn. Hell, there was enough room that this guy -->:penguin: <--could have run through it.

Man, you just gotta love the people that think speed is all you need.

Does anyone remember Jerry Rice???? 4.5+ speed during workouts, but blazing speed on the field. I could care less what the combine says about a player, what his 40 time is or anything like that. I care about what the game film says and the workout mentallity says. If the player outplays everyone on the field but only manages a 4.6 40yrd dash, I'm still looking at this guy as a HUGE part of my team because of his on the field play, not his combine numbers.

[montanamagic]

Nolan will NOT draft Ginn because of his durability question mark. He injured his ankle celebrating his opening kickoff return for a touchdown in the national championship game??? That was months ago and he couldnt run during the scouting combine or his pro day??? His injury is a lot more serious than people think. He does not sound like a Nolan guy to me...

[montanamagic]

im not faulting Ginn's injury regardless of who caused it. most players playing this violent game do get hurt from time to time. because he didnt run in the combine or pro day, he will have this durability issue as baggage and nolan will not take a player that high with question marks. now if he slides in the second or third round why not?