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TheWiz
04-15-2007, 11:02 AM
Somehow I would like to imagine that a Harvard PhD would actually certify someone as smart enough to write a good article. Yet Roger Noll, a Stanford Economics Professor, managed to completely inject personal preference and bias into his opinion submission. He twists calculations and tries to hide behind economic jargin to try and scare local residents. Yet very little of what he says is the least bit based in reality. I can only surmise that he quite literally abuses his authority as an academic to make bad arguments seem more plausible. It's like buying street corner jewelry, even if he is a certified gemologist you can bet that diamond necklace isn't made with diamonds and he knows he's selling you cubic zirconia. Yet he put himself on that corner and peddled away.

The opinion piece of which I speak can be found at: http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_5672692

Background

First of all, let me add my own little piece about Noll and his theories. He is a very educated man with his hands in all sort of economic and political theory. The most ridiculous of which is his belief that the trickle down effects of stadiums for a community do not exist. His opinion on this matter is largely academic, relying largely on economic theory than actual results. To make a long story short, he's basically trying to sell people an idea on the level of proving that global warming doesn't exist. His opinion is so ill respected that even his own university invested heavily in a big new stadium recently.

Trickle down effects are basic: Bringing in tens of thousands of fans increases profits for the local economy. At least 10 times a year, people who don't live in the city visit to go to the games. They buy gas, they eat food, they buy tshirts and they get hotel rooms. As a result local businesses need to either increases hours or hire new workers to staff restaurants, sell merchandise, clean hotel rooms, etc. It's free advertising for the local businesses too. You can't tell me that Great Adventure won't see increased business with a straight face. He's also vastly discounting the other events. What about a professional soccer exhibition game? Major concerts in the spring and summer? How about a CA state lacrosse championship or a youth football day for area-wide pop-warner teams? Either way, it's not like a stadium is a 10-game shot and that's it. Not to mention how much a Superbowl brings to the community. That's a week of packed hotels, eateries, and millions of spending in just a single week. If you can't believe in those benefits, ask the mayor of Miami how much he likes having a Superbowl nearly every 5 years.

Yet he denies that these exist. In fact, he more or less states that cities lose more by building stadiums. Yet I have never seen a non-academic article or real case where a city was worse off. He has economic figures that prove it but can't prove anything because the figures are in fact theoretical estimates. He is in a vast minority of people hiding behind equations when dozens of examples in the modern day prove otherwise. You can't prove anything by saying "Well, I think the city could've made more money had the stadium not been built". Generally he waves around numbers saying exactly that.

Construction Spending

By his claim "Counting construction spending as a benefit is a fundamental economic error". That's funny because I find it to be a logical error to make that statement. Yet as I said right off the bat, he's hiding behind economics as opposed to common sense. He talks about how costs should not be considered a benefit which again, avoids common sense!

First of all, it isn't the city paying the costs, it's the team. Secondly, he avoid the fact that we'd be spending hundreds of millions of dollars to create that 112M in economic effect. Stadiums are actually built from materials and buying those materials causes a profit for the supplier we buy them from. Building does help a local economy! You spend money to build, money that otherwise would not be spent if your weren't building. The act of erecting a stadium means the team spending to get workers and materials and to say that money can't be considered a positive for a local economy is laughable. If we spent 800M in merchandise in the city, it would be an economic benefit. But since we're buying concrete and steel it doesn't count? The reason Santa Clara doesn't just build things is because the economic returns are much smaller than the money spent! The city would be stupid to spend tens of millions to increase tax revenue by a small amount for a short period of time.

Construction Hiring

He does provide a logical argument over construction hiring but misses the underlying effects. I'd expect an economist to know that construction is a fairly volatile business. Companies arise when the economy and expansion is hot and vanish when work gets scarce. It only takes 1 fault structure and a lawsuit to ruin a companies name and put it and its workers out of business. He then makes a counterargument against himself! "Construction jobs are up 4.4 percent from a year ago". So, even without a stadium being built the industry still needed more workers? If the industry need to hire more workers and bring in out of town workers, only the better! The fact that we pull people away from other jobs is of minor consequence. As I understand it, long-term big contract deals result in better pay and guaranteed benefits for the workers. This is opposed to a 3-month quickie job on a housing complex where the workers won't get a pension credit or paid time off.

Ignoring The Facts

As he stated himself "a stadium subsidy requires some combination of increases in taxes and utility fees and reductions in other expenditures, all of which depress employment." Wait, wait a second here. When did the team or the city talk about increasing taxes or cutting back expenditures? The team hasn't even made a formal proposal on the utility items, that's just speculation until they could present it outright before the draft. Yet somehow "no effect on the city's general fund" is entirely passed over by this nutjob.

Economics Gone Awry

This is the part that really, really, REALLY smashes my gourde inside out. "A rough rule of thumb is that $100,000 in higher taxes or reduced expenditures causes the loss of one job." By his economic rule of thumb, we will in effect be firing 1,800 people if we take any money from the city. This is when I realized that this guys brain lost touch with Earth years ago.

This is money from a massive utility surplus we are talking about, right? Money which the city stumbled upon luckily a few years ago that really it shouldn't have to begin with. A very good report suggested how much economic impact moving that money would cost. I doubt he even knows of the report. Yet, I would love to find out how moving money that more or less is a slush fund will cause people to lose hundreds of jobs. It will create higher utility bills, sure, but widespread layoffs? That's a first. It isn't money that will require higher taxes to replace because it's regular spending. It's excess and surplus cash the taxpayers never paid a penny to create, PG&E did. Really, this is a clear case where his 'economics' fall to pieces as a backbone argument.

Another Economic Faux-Pas

"Thus, if unemployment were a problem, $180 million in public money should generate 18,000 jobs, not 2,230." That's great. Except I highly doubt that in those urban projects that the city gets ownership of a state of the art entertainment venue. He also forgets that if the stadium has any impact, that supposed 180M ensures part of that. Let's use basic arithmetic. Let's say the city gives about 20% of the cost to build a stadium. Then let's say the stadium makes an actual economic impact of X dollars. Thus by spending 180M the city ensures .2X dollars in economic impact per year. Let's say X is only 20M in spending per year overall so the city would be paying for 4M. Now, given the minimal 20 year stadium life span, that's 80M the local economy will get, not even adjusted for inflation. This is on top of owning a stadium and the 2,200 part-time jobs. It's also in contrast to the city will gain no actual benefit from the 180M otherwise because it's there only to maintain current utility costs. It won't save people more money or create more jobs, it simply will just keep people from spending an at worst estimated $70 per year. I'd love to see how the ratio of 180M to $70 per resident works out in terms of spending by his magical formulas.

I'm not even going to get into his "trickle down effects" don't exist portion.

The Coup De Gras

"If the city of Santa Clara foots the bill, the per capita investment will be about $6,000 per household." Don't you love the sound of that? It's like the city would be sending every homeowner a bill. Heck, the 180M, as is well known, was never even generated by taxpayers. It was generated by an energy crisis that had Santa Clara smiling. While most CA residents were in the dark, literally, Santa Clara was smiling with surplus energy at a cheap price. The individual resident is spending NOTHING. It has been shown that even the increased electricity costs are theoretical. If the costs go up a lot the increased taxes from a stadium can easily be used to cover a tax credit for residents who spend too much. In this paragraph alone he makes it sound as if a stadium has only bad effects and will cost each resident money out of their pocket, which is absurd. Per capita is cute but it ignores the reality of the matter.

It's like you won 30k on a gameshow and buy a new car. Sure the car price may be a bit higher than you'd pay with your own money but you're still getting a car for free! Yes, you will need to pay for gas and maintenance on it but it's still a car paid for from luckily found funds. By his argument since you pay too much for the car, you shouldn't buy one at all. Besides, it comes with extra costs like gas down the line!

The Jerm!
04-15-2007, 11:31 AM
Good read, oh and


Wiz is here to stay it looks like! :hatwave:

LordJacor
04-15-2007, 12:03 PM
It's almost as if he seriously believes that if you reduced the number of construction projects, construction workers would still continue to find work...

I can almost guarantee that any construction worker would want the number of construction projects in a city to go up, not down. A construction worker is going to want a better chance of finding a job, and more construction projects provides that.

I live in the volatile construction market of Las Vegas. Construction projects dwindled immensely post 9-11. Now construction is booming again. There is not a shot in hell construction workers would prefer the post 9-11 period to now. His argument implies they wouldn't mind.

Providing employment and thus income is a benefit to the people of the city that provides it, period. I think Wiz is right... this guy is using his intellectual talk to dissuade people rather than a solid argument.

offtackle24
04-15-2007, 12:11 PM
The author also ignores the other non-economic factors involved in the Santa Clara project. I was reading this article (cant remember the site), but it stated that only 9 percent of the season ticket holders live in San Francisco. In fact, there are more season ticket holders in Sacremento than San Francisco. By moving the stadium to Santa Clara, it is more beneficial for those season ticket holders in Sacramento because the BART station is within a 10 mile radius of the proposed stadium site. Therefore, the Sacramento ticket holders can use the Bart and wont have to stay at a hotel in San Francisco like before.

offtackle24
04-15-2007, 12:11 PM
oh and btw nice post wiz. I appreciate the work and research you put into your posts, so that we can learn new information every day.

Peter Proud
04-15-2007, 12:22 PM
Thank you TheWiz!:hatwave:

rjk*49
04-15-2007, 12:50 PM
Great analysis, once again Wiz.

Noll represents that particularly political/social elitist who lost all objectivity and ethical precepts of his field, for the sake of exploiting any means possible to justify his social/political agenda and biases.

I'm surprised, though, that you can see through Noll's obvious biased tacts, yet do an about face on global warming... Sure it exists, like clockwork every 1600 years.

Al Gore was right... its not about science anymore, its about morality. It never was about science, its about political/social theory, misanthropy, elitism, and anti-capitalism. Hard science, and legitimate, ethical scientists overwhelmingly refutes the selective, biased distortion of questionable post-1975 "data." The more vocal the public argument and the greater the questioning of the "facts" and motivations, the more imperative that people like Gore had to switch the argument to one of morality, and the classic Naziistic "no tolerance for any dissentors."

There can be no "consensus" in science. There is, however, gullibility inherent in the good-natured American public. Big Al is counting on that as he offsets his 4 huge houses' outrageous energy costs by buying "carbon offsets" and additonal stock in a company he OWNS. Follow the money.

You're a very bright guy, I'm surprised you haven't thought your way completely through that.

TheWiz
04-16-2007, 02:47 PM
And it only gets a little bit worse...

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_5677779

Yet another piece full of lopsided viewpoints. The writer clearly in not an economist and is just a public servant who has little clue of what they are writing. It does a good job of trying to create an impact by using key terms and shock phrases but the rhetoric is simply pathetic.

"Simply stated, most benefits asserted by proponents - such as new jobs - are regional" That's a new one. She goes on to say how all of the other neighbors have much better incomes. So, if the neighbors make so much more money why would they be driving into Santa Clara for part time jobs? Since when do part-time stadium security, hot dog vendors, tshirt sellers, and seat sweepers make enough to warrant a half an hour commute to work?In my experience such jobs almost always go to teens, young adults, and lower class workers all from the immediate area. People just don't go out of their way to go out of town to get cheap jobs easily available in their own city.

The next one is a complete fabrication that invalidates the authors credibility completely. It shows not only are they willing to lie but also did no actual research on this piece.

"If owning and operating the proposed stadium is such a great "investment," as its boosters in our Valley claim, why is San Francisco dragging its heels to do so for its very own team?" Who says they are dragging their heels? Heck, if she read the paper she was published in she'd know that the mayors office has been scrambling since last Fall to sell the concept of Hunter's Point to the team. There is no where to build a good stadium within the city!

She then goes on to propose that SF is balking because OAk's situation only proves that stadium deals are bad. First of all, OAK moved into the Colisseum, hardly a new structure. It was falling to pieces when the team moved back in the mid-90s. The city pays 20M because that's how much it takes to upkeep the now 41 year old structure. This is also an owner who left and right has screwed cities multiple times and buried the league and municipalities with egregious litigation. Candlestick itself is in even worse condition and the city pays even less to upkeep it. The article is comparing the costs of keeping a rusty, half-dead, burnt out car barely running to a brand new Honda.

"Will we be stuck with the same kinds of costs that are draining Oakland's coffers?" Ah, yes, now we're talking. Scare tactics! Make the honest people of the world afraid that in 30 years the city will be overwhelmed. Works great for the white house in general, not in opinion pieces. If you own the stadium then you have the right to lease it, or not, to whomever you want. If the city finds in 20 years it is costing too much, they're free to hire someone to demolish it and sell the land to someone else! Neat concept! If the city doesn't want to upkeep the stadium after a certain time, they can stop doing so! That's what lease agreements are for! If it's such a bad deal, why did it not dissuade Freemont from welcoming the A's with open arms? The Raiders aren't the only team in the Colisseum. Renovation or not, that place is high on the list to get replaced entirely.

"As for the so-called "quality of life" gains cited by the proponents, it is hard to see how increased traffic, noise and congestion and football party-goers will improve our quality of life. With all due respect to the residents of Oakland, it is hard to see how their Coliseum has improved their quality of life." Oh naturally. The city of Oakland has only languished in pain over having a professionall football and baseball team for decades. It made Oakland into not just a regional location but a national tourist attraction. I'm sure they hated the '87 all-star game as well. Not to mention the concerts and shows, what a drag! The writer actually complains about 10-12 whole days of traffic per year. If anything is made clear it's that the writer clearly hates football.

"assume obligation for a nearly $1 billion stadium." It's amazing how the price continues to climb each time a new negative piece is written. It went from 800 to 850 and then 925 and 950 in another article and now it costs 1B? Great way to ratchet up numbers blindly. After all, 1 Billion sounds a lot scarier than simple millions.

"Would this proposed stadium force even more draconian cuts?" Yay, more spooks! Let's see, if she had researched a single word she had written, oh wait. That assumption has long gone out the window. Somehow I don't think a local library is funded by electricity utility funds. Also, it took me about 10 seconds to realize how bad her point even is. Santa Clara has a massive, 80k square foot, very modern and elegant public library. One with fireplaces, its own cafe, and a children's garden. The writer has an issue more with the politicians who decide where the money goes because I'm sure that her library isn't cutting back hours because of lack of taxes. It's cutting back because most of the money went into the new megaplex of literature down the road! Judging by the stately manner of the REAL library, I don't think the city is short of funds for libraries.

"pay important long-term dividends: the education of our children" Ah yes, the worst expenditure in public funds possible being touted as a long-term asset. This country spends more money per child in public education than any other in the world and yet we lag severely in international aptitude. In fact, as more money has been spent since the 70s to fix this the bigger the divide has gotten. Higher spending in education is a tagline that gets presidents and governors elected. But all signs point to the problem not being financial but sociological. In this country education ends with the school day and kids play games or watch TV all night. In countries with nowhere near the facilities, resources, and flash of our schools children score much higher because education is taken more seriously by the family.

Investing in education is a complete sink hole when it comes to returns. For each child that leaves town or goes to college and never returns to live in the city, you get nothing from your investment. Those that stay often don't go to college and assume low-income jobs where their taxes will never repay the public money spent to educate them through high school. Economically speaking, the city may as well give the per child expenditure to a random local. Then at least some of it is funneled back into the local economy and the city will get a better reward.

If that 180M goes to schools it becomes a Catch-22. If you spend it on more teachers and yearly costs, it will run out and then some day they will get stuck either firing/laying off those teachers/programs. If it's used to fix schools and build new ones, new facilities require new staffs and equipment and higher taxes. Either way, residents will get stiffed with higher property taxes they protest against to get the education they demand but don't want to pay for.

"They are so cash-strapped that the kindergarten day was cut to a half-day over a year ago to save money" This is kindergarten right? Is there something about fingerpainting, nap time, the alphabet, names of animals, colors, and recess that parents can't provide at home?

"If the $180 million were put into an Education Foundation benefiting Santa Clara public schools, it could provide an additional $900 per student, per year in perpetuity. That's my idea of a good investment." Bingo, let's sock away 180M just to get interest on a $0 return investment. Why not give that money to the elderly in the form of electricity and water utility credits and a dedicated, new senior center? Part-time in home nurses? Heck, those residents have lived decades or more in the city and paid more taxes and support students already with their taxes.

The author presented a terrible near-sighted article trying to shoot down a stadium and then suggested spending the money in probably the worst place for the common good. Low "APIs" likely indicate bad teaching, programs, or parental concern and effort, not lack of spending. There are schools in countries where 1k spending per child is lavish and they kick the pants off our 9-year olds. Spending more on education to get better results, in most cases is like trying to put out a fire by drowning it in gasoline.

ethanh
04-16-2007, 03:35 PM
Wiz there will always be people who do not feel using 180 million to build a stadium is a good plan when there are so many other (crime/educational)needs in a city. People thought going to the moon was a waste. You can count on more nay-sayers especially if a vote nears.
How do you see the stadium plan being recieved by SC even with the bad PR?
If SC is not buying it will HP be an easier sell since the land is basically free and going to be a studium or nothing but an empty toxic lot?

LordJacor
04-16-2007, 03:57 PM
I do believe the negative attack articles are only going to become more and more frequent. TheWiz, we sincerely enjoy your writings and your indepth knowledge of the game, amongst other fields... but don't get burned out countering the points of the uninformed "educated" folks.

TheWiz
04-16-2007, 05:00 PM
Wiz there will always be people who do not feel using 180 million to build a stadium is a good plan when there are so many other (crime/educational)needs in a city.

I know and I agree with that. No measure as big and costly as this one ever goes through without opposite opinions. I think communities should indeed weigh the costs of an NFL stadium or any sports venue before building it. The city of Santa Clara has a bigger question of asking not whether they can afford a stadium but rather if its benefits outweigh those of other possible investments. Not every city who can afford a team should in fact get one. Perhaps they could more easily use that money to increase after school programs, outfit the police and fire department with new equipment, pay down some city debt from past bond measures, build a new park, and so on. In general increase public safety and also add to their quality of life in that manner. Now that would be a wise and at least smart opinion compared to these 2 articles.


People thought going to the moon was a waste. You can count on more nay-sayers especially if a vote nears.

If there is ever a better example of spiritual rewards than anything else, the moon landing has got to be at least one of the best. Sure it cost a lot and generally returned nothing spectacular but it's patriotic impact was worth every penny and you can't buy that effect on purpose. It was a major morale boost in the cold war, probably the first major definable victory the country, proved our engineering superiority, and more than ever stated our case as the technological frontier of the world. Those who don't get the moon landing clearly won't get the impact on an NFL stadium.


How do you see the stadium plan being recieved by SC even with the bad PR?

It depends largely on how well and quickly the team rebutts these half-hearted attacks on its plan. The team hired a PR firm and a political strategist over a year ago when they hired Lenar corp. and started working on new plans. If the teams PR firm is going to earn its paycheck they will be able to countercheck both of these article easily.

The first article makes terrible assumptions such as the 180M is from taxpayer's own taxes and hides behind economic theory that very obviously has no basis in the reality of this case. And this most recent editorial was sheer scare tactics and in some cases no research and complete fabrications. Hopefully any Santa Clara resident will see through these items and the team will see to it that it makes a public counter-argument.

I don't hate opposing viewpoints. What I hate are viewpoints like these two articles. Full of holes, bias, and in some cases lies and mistakes. It's like a political campaign. Right now the opposition is mud-slinging and making false allegations. I'd imagine someone should be able to come up with a real debate over the issues. Perhaps an editorial on places the money could be better spent that actually makes sense. Don't try to slander the teams proposal, instead provide an actual plan of good places the money could go otherwise. This should be an issue about what to spend money on and the potential benefits. In essence it should be about the values of the community, not trying to prove one side or another wrong. Don't simply bash our plan, give the citizens a better option! I gave a few examples above where easily several tens of millions could increase public safety, education, and enjoyment opportunities on a small scale and cost less for the residents. I can provide a better argument for why not to build the stadium there than they can!


If SC is not buying it will HP be an easier sell since the land is basically free and going to be a studium or nothing but an empty toxic lot?

If Santa Clara in large doesn't 'buy' the offer we're making by next fall we will start looking elsewhere. This is where the mayor's office is key to the city. If he has half a marble rolling around, he should know that at least fast-tracking the Hunter's Point cleanup has political advantages when he is in dire need of them. It shows his eager to not risk public health any longer and to make it possible to revitalize the site. If he makes a concerted and effective effort and wheels are seriously turning then the team should take a deeper look at the site. However, at the same time I expect that another secondary site such as San Jose could become our new backup choice.

Here are the pitfalls of the problem. Firstly, the new Lenar proposal involves and entire Hunter's Point area revitalization that doesn't require a stadium. It includes a big seaside park, new housing, markets, retail, new roads, etc. It's politically popular enough that it will get approved and started well before we even decide to put in a stadium. My second thought is that the mayor's office is largely inflating the chances of getting Hunter's Point cleaned up by '10 when we would need to be breaking ground. It would be safer to say it will be done by '12 and take extra-extensive measures to clean it up. All the while I'd still want 2 big things to happen. The first would be a new lease structure allowing us to go year by year with extensive drops in cost. That way we wouldn't need to committ to Candlestick for another half a decade until '17 but only for an extra year or two. The second would be for the city to pay for the infrastructure costs, which would include significant road improvements and widening and to scrub the park idea in favor of 'green' parking like in the Santa Clara proposal. Fix the traffic, make infrastructure part of the package, and give us the extra parking space and he'd have my undivided attention.

Niner Jan
04-24-2007, 02:52 AM
I'll be attending tomorrow night's SC CC meeting, so I'll try to remember some salient points to offer, although the SC Stadium site will probably carry the whole presentation of the 49ers. I'll have to look up the website again and post it; I have it bookmarked on my other computer (in the kitchen).

Niner Mom

joe34msub
05-18-2007, 11:43 AM
TheWiz made some astute observations about a poorly written by an esteemed professor that for some other reason does not want the new stadium in Santa Clara. I looked at the article from another perspective.

I'm a Forty Niner fan from Montana, so the stadium issue does concern me as much as it would the local fan. However, Professor Nall's analogy to the pyramid is nonsense because a pyramid would not provide benefits for thousands of years, while the stadium would begin providing benefits when finished.

I simply took the numbers provided by the study and calculated Present Value and Internal Rate of Return. With the initial investment to the city being $180 million and the return to the city conservatively estimated to be 20% of the $160 million beginning at the end of year three, the Present Value of the project to the city is nearly $350 million and the Internal Rate of Return is nearly 106% for only the first ten years of the project with no salvage value at the end of the tenth year. What City Manager could reasonably argue against these figures?

Professor Nall should be ashamed of his article.

Fricker 4
05-18-2007, 11:49 PM
Ya what they said.

ninerswin
05-20-2007, 05:32 PM
If there is ever a better example of spiritual rewards than anything else, the moon landing has got to be at least one of the best. Sure it cost a lot and generally returned nothing spectacular but it's patriotic impact was worth every penny and you can't buy that effect on purpose. It was a major morale boost in the cold war, probably the first major definable victory the country, proved our engineering superiority, and more than ever stated our case as the technological frontier of the world. Those who don't get the moon landing clearly won't get the impact on an NFL stadium.
In fact, the Apollo project actually yielded considerable tangible byproducts. The space race provided the impetus to develop faster and faster computers. Among other spinoffs, we now have Velcro and Ziplock bags that arose from needing to take care of astronauts.

There is no question in my mind that having a new stadium in Santa Clara will provide a significant financial and morale boost to the area. It will also benefit the team to be welcomed by an incredibly enthusiastic fan base in the south bay who have been kept away from the home games due to a long and aggravating drive to South San Francisco.

Peter Proud
05-20-2007, 05:45 PM
It will also benefit the team to be welcomed by an incredibly enthusiastic fan base in the south bay who have been kept away from the home games due to a long and aggravating drive to South San Francisco.

So how far south do you have to live for it to 'a long and aggravating drive to South San Francisco"?

I'm 97 miles away in the Central Valley

ninerswin
05-21-2007, 12:21 AM
So how far south do you have to live for it to 'a long and aggravating drive to South San Francisco"?

I'm 97 miles away in the Central Valley

On a crowded highway 101 during rush hour? It can take 2.5 hours to do 30 miles. I was wondering that myself when I was stuck in traffic during a Monday night game. I left way before the game, and yet I still missed nearly the entire first half by the time I got there. At the Santa Clara site, there's light rail for those who don't want to drive.

Peter Proud
05-21-2007, 12:35 AM
So how far south do you have to live for it to 'a long and aggravating drive to South San Francisco"?

I'm 97 miles away in the Central Valley

Takes me 1 hr. and 40 minutes

Niner Jan
05-23-2007, 01:31 PM
Wiz,

I hope you sent a copy of your rebuttal of the biased remarks from the "good learned professor" to Mayor Mahan and the City Council. I'm getting to know them since I've gone to several of their CC meetings on Tuesday evenings. (They are quite likable individuals, really--friendlier than the set sitting on the CC in my town, Sunnyvale.)

I think that professor must be in "cahoots" with the @*%^# lawyer Byron Feck who showed up at the last SC CC meeting with his cronies from the website, "Not with my money you don't." They all seem to have an advanced degree in fabricating and scrambling facts to suit their purposes.

The article by Kate Grant (?) is so shot full of holes that it doesn't take much information to focus on the fallacy of her arguments.

I only scanned her article, but even so, she complained about the costs of maintaining the stadium as being part of the cost of operating it. Doesn't she know that income is realized to offset expenses? Besides, as I understand it, the 49ers are paying far more than SC in the building of the stadium (80 vs 20 million), as well as absorbing the risk of construction costs overrun, plus maintenance. I certainly don't have the facts memorized, but neither does the writer show any research into the facts of the presentation made by the 49ers before the City Council. (I was present for that lengthy, detailed presentation, but I admit certain details have escaped my memory at this point.)

I guess people who have an axe to grind will manufacture their own "facts" regardless of the truth. The allow the steam engine of their own passion to power forward their faulty arguments.

Oh well, such is life!

I've been kept very busy attending CC meetings, speaking, and writing on behalf of different proposals from both the Santa Clara CC and Sunnyvale CC. The score so far is 2 articles in The SUN (Sunnyvale's paper) and one pending in the Santa Clara Weekly on behalf of those 2 projects--the one more important to 49er fans, of course, is the 49ers proposed stadium in SC.

I just want to encourage you, WIZ, to forward your letters/articles to the SC CC. They need to be armed with all the facts and arguments possible to overcome the defeatists like Lawyer Fleck and that "good professor" as well as that other writer who sounds a lot like the people from the website to which I earlier referred: "Not with my money you don't."

As I wrote in my talk before the SC CC, I wish we ordinary folks had the opportunity of reaping such a HUGE benefit on a 80% to 20% basis as SC has in building and owning the new proposed stadium. As soon as 2012, the City will start raking in the revenue, which will continue with increased entertainment offerings (outside of football, maybe even soccer) ad infinitum. SC's investment will be more than repaid!

With proper planning and watchdog accounting practices, how can the City with the Golden Touch lose? They have already proven they can do it with other similar past projects, why not THIS bonanza of an opportunity? This could become the highly lucrative Entertainment District of the North (Bay)!

Niner Mom :blowakiss: :towel: :wub:

Niner Jan
05-25-2007, 01:15 AM
I attended a "town hall" type of meeting last night in Santa Clara, and I'm sad that the few of us 49er supporters were in the minority.

Jed York did a fine job facing the firing squad! I felt sorry for him because there were a lot of people there to shoot down the stadium proposal with their remarks and questions, but I must reiterate that JED DID A TERRIFIC JOB of handling every question fired at him.

The arrogant lawyer, Byron Fleck, was there along with the website people of "Now with my money you don't". The ambulance chaser tried his best to put Jed on the spot, but Jed didn't let him get the best of him, I'm proud to say. He tried to get Jed to invite him at every meeting he would preside over regarding the stadium. Jed said he felt no obligation to do that, but that everyone was open to inviting him for a "town hall meeting." I wanted to cheer out loud that Jed had beaten the lawyer at his own game, but in a nice way...

This is going to be a tough fight, I'm sorry to say...Our Niners have an uphill battle to win this one. :shades:

Kenage
05-25-2007, 02:47 PM
Thanks for the nice report Jan. Not that this is really important but should not the name of the anti stadium group be, "Not with my money you don't" instead of "Now with my money you don't"?