"Pedestrian Walk Way"

[estrine]

Why not turn the proprosed "Pedestrian Walk Way" in to something similar to "City Walk" in Universal City-Universal Studios,California.When our family vacations at Universal Studios we usually eat dinner at their "City Walk".This place is always crowded with customers.City Walk has restaurants & Gift Shops.The money made from our out door shopping & Gift shop walk way could help fund the Stadium.

[TheWiz]

I can only help but assume you're talking about the proposed fan through-way at the proposed stadium site in Santa Clara. The which more or less connects the Great America sidfe of the parking lots, crosses in front of the stadium, and goes down to the front of the convention center. I personally cannot describe nor do I have any personal knowledge of the Universal Studios building of which you write. However, the walkway, at least the one you are referring to, is important in many ways.

1) It separates a proposed 3 level parking garage from the stadium. Anything build on that thoroughfare would be squashed between a stadium and concrete.

2) The walkway should be a little more stylish than you may think. It will possibly be the site of some statues, a possible 'wall of honor' fans can stop by, and/or some plaques and other such items. Otherwise the stadium has no room for such memorabilia that may attract fans all year long.

3) The city likes the walkway. It connects the stadium, Great America, and Convention center all in one lane free from traffic. It also maximizes traffic. With easy access any two lots can be used for the remaining venue.

4) I think you overlook what could be on the site. The design so far involves a big, expansive tower for private boxes along the walkway. In the base of that tower, other than VIP ticket booths and elevators, is plenty of room for some public access. In consideration is a team museum, a memorabilia based restaurant, potentially selling rights to a 3rd party food vendor, and I'm sure a gift shop is on the list. Not to mention the fact that the stadium has plenty of room for a small merchandise store in each corner or side of the field along the concourse.

[smoking_rubber]

What about access to the stadium? Will it be an indoor facility? Meaning, Monster Park is set up with perimeter gates, then exterior escalators and facilities. Will it be similar at the new stadium . . . or will it be like the Staples Center with MANY entrances from all sides and indoor food courts? I know I'm comparing an indoor facility to an outdoor facility, but their many travels may have taught them a trick or two.

[estrine]

I have already asked the City Of Santa Clara to look in to the feasability of building the out door Pedestrian Walk Way Shopping Center.I know that council persons Kevin Moore & Dominic Caserta have shown interest in the proprosed shopping center.The City Of Santa Clara would have to make the final decision on the way it should be built.

[smoking_rubber]

Shopping Center? I believe that area sees a significant amount of traffic during lunch hours, but has long stretches of inactivity. A shopping center would require a lot of foot traffic. I don't think it would work. Just my opinion.

[Ed the Vet]

If Santa Clara and San Francisco don't work out, maybe Mare Island in Vallejo would be a better place to build a stadium and other items like walkways, restauants, amusements etc.

[TheWiz]

If Santa Clara and San Francisco don't work out, maybe Mare Island in Vallejo would be a better place to build a stadium and other items like walkways, restauants, amusements etc.

I won't even start to mention the problems with that. It's on the far northeast of the bay, largely in an area closer to Oakland than San Francisco. Everyone in San Francisco and points S and SE would get severely ticked off. It's an even worse driving situation than San Mateo or San Jose or points south.

What about access to the stadium? Will it be an indoor facility? Meaning, Monster Park is set up with perimeter gates, then exterior escalators and facilities. Will it be similar at the new stadium . . . or will it be like the Staples Center with MANY entrances from all sides and indoor food courts? I know I'm comparing an indoor facility to an outdoor facility, but their many travels may have taught them a trick or two.

The Walkway proposed passes between the front of the stadium and between the stadium and parking garage. It's supposed to be a direct corridor running north to south. On the north end would be a large pedestrian crossing leading to the convention center. To the south would be the bulk of the northern lots for Great America.

Since it is designed to be a wide walking corridor, it is going to be outdoors. It gives Great America patrons access and an easy route to garage parking provided by the stadium and/or convention center. Also, the hope is that in the offseason and at certain times the stadium can be an outdoor exhibit venue to combine with the convention center. Functionally, it also makes the area look less constricting and makes plenty of attractive options available for Great America and the city.

On the team's side, it is an outdoor venue outside of the stadium. The base of the tower which will hold coaching, press, and luxury boxes will be along the walkway. It will provide space for a team-based memorabilia store, a team and NFL apparel store, a ticket office, and a variety of thus yet undecided retail and dining options such as a team themed restaurant. These would be open most of the year for business. Also, the walkway could later be home to external sights such as statues, a wall of honor listing great players of the past, etc. On gamedays the outdoor venue further lends itself to roadside vendors like many baseball venues as well as ample space for a stage for bands to play.

[smoking_rubber]

What about entrances from the back? Would people coming from across the canal have to walk all the way around to the front (the front being the walkway)?

These decisions have probably not been finalized yet, just wondering what the preliminary thoughts are.

[XRaguX]

I won't even start to mention the problems with that. It's on the far northeast of the bay, largely in an area closer to Oakland than San Francisco. Everyone in San Francisco and points S and SE would get severely ticked off. It's an even worse driving situation than San Mateo or San Jose or points south.


OK, Wiz. This is a joke, right? I respect many of your opinions, but this position is extremely biased and uninformed. Mare Island has just as many things going for it as the site in Santa Clara


The distance from Candlestick (South San Franisco not central SF) to Vallejo & Candlestick to Santa Clara are about the same (~38 miles):

To Vallejo:
http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result.php?q1=Vallejo%2C+CA&q2=602+Jamestown+Ave%2C+San+Francisco%2C+CA%2C+US&q3=&q4=&q5=

To Santa Clara:
http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result.php?q1=Santa+Clara%2C+CA&q2=602+Jamestown+Ave%2C+San+Francisco%2C+CA%2C+US&q3=&q4=&q5=

***The distance from San Francisco doesn't favor either site***



Vallejo doesn't have light rail but does have ferry service from San Francisco. Additionally, Highway 37 (from San Rafael), 29 (from Napa), 780 (from Contra Costa), 4 & 80 (from San Francisco/Oakland & from Sacramento) all converge in and around Vallejo.

***While the Santa Clara site has better public transportation, most fans will drive. Comparing both Santa Clara and Vallejo, there are challenges with each site but you cannot claim that one site significantly has better access to regional freeways than the other***



Recently, Peter proud mentioned in an earlier post that only about 30% of 49er STH live in the South Bay

...and points S and SE would get severely ticked off.

I guess it's OK for the South Bayer's to be 'pissed' if the stadium moves an hour to the North but everyone in the East & North Bay should shut it when it's proposed an hour South in Santa Clara?!? What about fans in Sacto? Should we now cater to a minority of fans in the South Bay?

What about my favorite argument that "If you are a "True fan", it should matter how long the drive is. What's an extra hour if you are a 'True Fan'". Does that argument only work for one side of the argument?

It's an even worse driving situation than San Mateo or San Jose or points south.


***I don't know how you could make this statement.***





Wiz - I find it extremely troubling that you attacked the Mare Island idea without knowing the accessibility of the region. Additionally, I think it's poor judgement to say that a move North would 'tick' off a portion of fans when that's the same argument that many want marginalized due to move South.

Like it or not, you have tremendous influence on this board. While you may want to be like Charles Barkley and dismiss it, we both know that you cannot ignore it.

I love your insight, knowledge and unlimited desire to share this with everyone on this board. However, you seem to have a personal stake in any stadium discussion and routinely dismiss/attack those that oppose your position.

I hope that you appreciate that many on this board value how you manage to stay above the frey and remain mostly impartial in most football related discussions. My hope is that you can extend this attitude to all current and future stadium disussions.

[TheWiz]

OK, Wiz. This is a joke, right? I respect many of your opinions, but this position is extremely biased and uninformed. Mare Island has just as many things going for it as the site in Santa Clara

I disagree.


The distance from Candlestick (South San Franisco not central SF) to Vallejo & Candlestick to Santa Clara are about the same (~38 miles):

...

***The distance from San Francisco doesn't favor either site***


I never said that Mare Island is further away from San Francisco so I don't know what your point is. Is it equally as far to go from San Francisco to Santa Clara? Sure. But that wasn't something I was disputing. The distance from the city to the new, proposed site is not a problem. Nor would the distance from the city to Mare Island be a problem.


Vallejo doesn't have light rail but does have ferry service from San Francisco. Additionally, Highway 37 (from San Rafael), 29 (from Napa), 780 (from Contra Costa), 4 & 80 (from San Francisco/Oakland & from Sacramento) all converge in and around Vallejo.

I never said it's impossible to get to Vallejo. But you're talking about Mare Island. You didn't suggest the city of Vallejo, we're talking specifically about Mare Island. Getting into a region is not a problem just about anywhere in the Bay Area. Getting to the city is not a problem. Proximity to major highways is.

It doesn't take more than a casual glance on those maps to note the relatively small lack of outlets. Anyone trying to leave a game west and back down into the city will face a 10+ drive before hitting a major vein. Meanwhile anyone trying to go back east and down towards Oakland will all need to cross through that part of the city to reach the highway. One person getting into or out of a small area is no problem. But when it's tens of thousands of cars in a short time span? Combine that with regular city and highway traffic on those roads.


***While the Santa Clara site has better public transportation, most fans will drive. Comparing both Santa Clara and Vallejo, there are challenges with each site but you cannot claim that one site significantly has better access to regional freeways than the other***

Sure, many fans will drive. Team official releases state the number of fans who arrive by public transportation (light rail, train, bus) is about a quarter of the fans, around 19k. A site with less public access makes it harder for those without vehicles to enjoy games.

Meanwhile, Santa Clara does have better highway access. Within 2 miles of the site are ramps on and off the 101 and 237. Both have very short drives much less than 10 miles to also connect you to a pair of highways heading up towards east bay or south, and the 101 alone or the 280 both traverse right back up to the city. Mare Island has nowhere near that type of immediate access. It's over 15 miles west on Sears Point Road to even hit a highway and you've got 5 miles on 37 just to hit a longer highway.

Sure, once you get onto 80 you could move onto 780 or follow that into the city. But it's not great either. It more or less forces all fans onto a small stretch of 37 or onto a smaller road. If you use the radius you had around Vallejo to include those highways than Santa Clara has twice as many arteries serving a bigger region. How long it takes and how far a stadium full of fans takes to hit major arteries and diffuse the better. I just see a lot more immediate access and travel routes in a closer area around Santa Clara than Mare Island.


Recently, Peter proud mentioned in an earlier post that only about 30% of 49er STH live in the South Bay

They do, and something on the order of 10% of STHs live in the actual city itself. However, these are number mentioned by the team in a deliberate effort to note that while they may be leaving the city, they're moving towards a larger percentage of 'loyal' fans in the south bay. Loyal meaning those who regularly commit to seats for the whole year.

But the stadium is not fully packed each week with STHs. Even though STHs are loyal and are dependable revenue, its non-STHs that fill the empty regions in the stands. Even though 10% of STHs live in the city it would be folly to think that only 10% of patrons in the stands are from the city. Much higher numbers are from the city. At the same the team is pitching STH percentages, they're also pushing public transportation access to entice San Jose and San Francisco fans. Moreso San Francisco fans.


I guess it's OK for the South Bayer's to be 'pissed' if the stadium moves an hour to the North but everyone in the East & North Bay should shut it when it's proposed an hour South in Santa Clara?!? What about fans in Sacto? Should we now cater to a minority of fans in the South Bay?

First of all, I never said that you couldn't complain about the Santa Clara location. Of course it's not idyllic for north bay fans. But, if the team was looking at Mare Island first and suddenly dumped the idea to move to Santa Clara, wouldn't you be even more angry?

Secondly, no matter any direction you move to, you'll be with a minority of fans. If the team had some unruly high percentage of ticket buyers in just one area, that would actually be a bad thing. If we're only selling tickets to North bay people (whom you implied were a majority of game attendees) then why would we ever want to move south? You'd think with all of the open land around Napa and Sonoma and the supposedly great ticket sale rates we'd prefer to plunk down right there.


What about my favorite argument that "If you are a "True fan", it should not matter how long the drive is. What's an extra hour if you are a 'True Fan'". Does that argument only work for one side of the argument?

That argument is great in one of two situations. First off, when you want to be praised or glorified and think you're a better fan because you 'sacrificed more'. Secondly when you're someone who doesn't have a thing to complain about and you want the inconvenienced people to shut up, you pull that card out. No one ever wins the battle. Sacrificing or suffering a hardship does not make you a better or more important fan.



***I don't know how you could make this statement.***

Easily, I've always had a much more predictable and easy drive to points south than I ever have to points north.


Wiz - I find it extremely troubling that you attacked the Mare Island idea without knowing the accessibility of the region. Additionally, I think it's poor judgement to say that a move North would 'tick' off a portion of fans when that's the same argument that many want marginalized due to move South.

Again, I never said at any point that North Bay fans don't have a right to complain about the tema moving south. If the team had a viable and workable site closer to the city, I'm sure it would be heavily considered and wouldn't been a more popular choice than Santa Clara. But what I wrote was also in the context of actual life. The team is trying to move to Santa Clara. To dump a site squarely in the south bay and pick up and move to the complete other side of the bay would probably anger not only south bay STHs but hurt the team's reputation in all of the south bay in general.


I love your insight, knowledge and unlimited desire to share this with everyone on this board. However, you seem to have a personal stake in any stadium discussion and routinely dismiss/attack those that oppose your position.

This is a public forum designed for exchanging ideas, discussing them, and informing the fans. If I can't argue my opinion than what is the point? Should I lie and say I think Mare Island is a good location when I do not? I'm very certain that regular visitors know full well that I'm in favor on the Santa Clara location. In large part because I think the only 2 actually proposed sites and the limited concepts put together thus far all prove to be inferior to some degree and detrimental to actually creating a good stadium. There probably is a site out there better than Santa Clara but we may never know about it. Finding a decent sized city, transportation, infrastructure, building space, and so on can be a daunting task.


I hope that you appreciate that many on this board value how you manage to stay above the frey and remain mostly impartial in most football related discussions. My hope is that you can extend this attitude to all current and future stadium disussions.

I don't see how my opinion weighs anymore on this matter than any other discussion on this board. I've only evaluated the stadium based on all the information I have at hand as I always do. My analysis is not emotion based. I don't necessarily live closer to one or the other. I'm just playing by the facts, plain and simple.

Meanwhile as I said, I don't think Mare Island is a better site. Large amounts of road construction would be needed. I'm also fairly certain that Mare Island isn't quite ready to hold an extra ~70k people in its infrastructure. I'm not the Vallejo city waterworks manager, but I doubt that there is sewage and plumbing lines to the island prepared to handle the volume and pressure needed for some 15k toilet flushes during halftime alone. It also begs the question if the city really wants that isle to turn into a tourist trap.

[Jsmooth]

There is another reason for the 9ers to rule out the Mare Island idea. With their corporate/team headquarters already in Santa Clara, I think that the team would be reluctant to double the commute to the stadium. They will not spend to rebuild a first class practice facility (the Yorks) and I don' t know that the the voters would/could afford to spend money to upgrade the infrastructure to build a new stadium AND a practice facility. That leaves my final thing about the stadium location. It has to be close enough to corporate sponsers and money to make it possible. Google Stadium sounds like it could work...The former US Naval Base at Mare Island not so much. besides, The City of Vallejo has plans for Mare Island...one that will make it more money
http://www.ci.vallejo.ca.us/GovSite/

[smoking_rubber]

Whats the deal with the large luxury box sitting smack dab in the middle of the best section in the house? Oh, I bet that's where the owner sits. The common fans can have the "large lower bowl" or the fat middle section facing the sun. Are they really doing us any favors by lowering the upper section 12 ft and moving it back 60ft?

[Niner Jan]

Smoking rubber,

(Maybe you should change your screen name to smoking gun?) :hunter:

What's the deal with the large luxury box sitting smack dab in the middle of the best section in the house? Oh, I bet that's where the owner sits. The common fans can have the "large lower bowl" or the fat middle section facing the sun. Are they really doing us any favors by lowering the upper section 12 ft and moving it back 60ft?

"I bet that's where the owner sits." Don't look now, but I think your true colors are showing...That statement seems to reflect your prejudice. I have no idea what you are talking about because you are discussing a detail with which I'm unfamiliar, but your sarcasm and true feelings about the Yorks are NOT disguised! :down:

With all the money that the owners are dishing out for a new stadium, why would they NOT be entitled to the best luxury box in the "house"? If YOU were in his shoes, would you not want the best also? I'd say the one who forks out so much cash, earns the right to the best seat in the house. If that makes me biased, then it's no less so than YOUR insinuated accusation.

Good thing you're not trying to HIDE your prejudice! If Eddie were still the owner (instead of his sister), would you be as angered to have him sit in the best luxury box? Something's rotten in Denmark...and its stench can NOT be disguised.

Furthermore, the topic was about a Pedestrian Way. Why are you talking about luxury boxes here? Or am I totally off base...?

********

WIZ,

Thanks for all the time, energy, and enthusiasm you thrust into the topic of the stadium (and in all other topics in which you participate). I have no personal stake in the outcome of the stadium, but I CARE because my team considers Santa Clara the best location for the team to play on game day and having it in close proximation to its CHQ and training facility make it triply desirable. The rationale is sound all around.

One thing caught my attention earlier in this thread. It was the mention of a fan museum. That topic was mentioned to me by my stalwart friend, Martin Jacobs, author of several books on the 49ers, and known to be #1 Fan by virtue of the Visa contest in 2000 and by his lifetime dedication to the 49ers.

In an email shared with me (which he had sent to Dr. York), he talked about having a 49er museum for the fans to which we could contribute some of our treasures to be enjoyed by other fans. I, for one, would LOVE to contribute my treasurehouse of 49er memorabilia which I would otherwise bequeath to individuals in a matter of a few years, any way-- because of my abbreviated life span remaining.

I was excited to see mention of such a MUSEUM for the fans. I would have some wonderful gems to donate for others to take delight in. Sometimes it is enough to be able to RELISH beautiful things on public display; you don't always have to POSSESS them in privacy. I will be happy to SHARE my abundance with other fans.

Life is too short to be always bickering about trivialities. Why not expand our hearts and be more generous instead of dividing always? :pray:

Niner Mom :go9ers:

[smoking_rubber]

The sarcastic comment I made does not define my feelings for anyone. I have plenty of sarcasm, so do you apparently. I've never been to Denmark, does it smell like Santa Clara?

My feelings regarding the new stadium should be clear. I'm disappointed with certain aspects of it. I would not oppose the stadium project overall. I would like a better plan though.

I don't like the parking situation. I don't like the non-scalloped upper level and huge luxury box design. I WOULD like intelligent conversation on the topics, but I can't always seem to remove the sarcasm from my writing. I am not intenionally attacking the Yorks. My position would not be any different if Eddie were still around. I have to raise an eyebrow when looking at the renderings. I see the best seats in the house being replaced by a huge tower and I see tailgating spaces being replaced by parking garages. I'm concerned. Anyone that doesn't look at the design and have at least one question, isn't really looking.

This is not a personal attack on anyone. I love the idea of building a new 49er stadium. I just think the organization has had their eye on the lot next door for so long, they're not trying to look at all their options. They've wanted a stadium right there for 20 years. They should have made the move 5 years ago before that area got any more congested.


So it was bad to raise the issue of the luxury box in this thread, but Mr Jacobs, the museum and attacking me are all cool? Just wondering.