Tailgating

[smoking_rubber]

Has anyone pondered the tailgating situation in Santa Clara? York pulled out of SF because of the necessary parking garage, then plopped a huge garage right next to the Santa Clara site.

According to the proposal there will be only 6,000 parking spaces on-site. Those are mostly in the garage and the rest will be predominantly handicapped.

So where will the brats be burnin? Across Great America Parkway! 31,000 parking spaces will be available between hwy 237 and hwy 101. That's right! If you plan on tailgating in 2012, plan on walking from Mission College (or equal distance) and back every game day.

Football will become like Basketball. No tailgating. Just park in the garage ($50), buy your beer and dogs at the vendor ($12 beer, $10 dog), watch the game and drive home. No loitering before or after the games. Tradition GONE.

No one has come out and said it, because no one wants to believe it. But it's all in black and white. That's the plan, according to their proposal. Nothing has been set in stone yet, but there is no way to make the proposed site any bigger. So if the papers are signed, consider it stoned.

After Yorks big announcement that he was quiting the Candlestick plan "FOR THE TAILGATERS," he immediately moves to this plan and no one has called him on it.

A day at the game in 2012 will sure be different than it is today. I'll miss the smells, tossing the football, and the camaraderie. Sure, some people will find their spot at Tech Firm A and happily sacrifice a cow. But the environment around the stadium will be like going to Universal Studios.

[RaiderHater]

Has anyone pondered the tailgating situation in Santa Clara? York pulled out of SF because of the necessary parking garage, then plopped a huge garage right next to the Santa Clara site.

According to the proposal there will be only 6,000 parking spaces on-site. Those are mostly in the garage and the rest will be predominantly handicapped.

So where will the brats be burnin? Across Great America Parkway! 31,000 parking spaces will be available between hwy 237 and hwy 101. That's right! If you plan on tailgating in 2012, plan on walking from Mission College (or equal distance) and back every game day.

Football will become like Basketball. No tailgating. Just park in the garage ($50), buy your beer and dogs at the vendor ($12 beer, $10 dog), watch the game and drive home. No loitering before or after the games. Tradition GONE.

No one has come out and said it, because no one wants to believe it. But it's all in black and white. That's the plan, according to their proposal. Nothing has been set in stone yet, but there is no way to make the proposed site any bigger. So if the papers are signed, consider it stoned.

After Yorks big announcement that he was quiting the Candlestick plan "FOR THE TAILGATERS," he immediately moves to this plan and no one has called him on it.

A day at the game in 2012 will sure be different than it is today. I'll miss the smells, tossing the football, and the camaraderie. Sure, some people will find their spot at Tech Firm A and happily sacrifice a cow. But the environment around the stadium will be like going to Universal Studios.

I just hope they don't set up the tailgating rules like Seattle does @ Qwest Field. The rules they have over there for tailgating in their lots are dumb.

Tailgating is a big part of the whole game experience. And I hope they try to accommodate the tailgaters by having a good amount of parking spaces.

[Peter Proud]

I just hope they don't set up the tailgating rules like Seattle does @ Qwest Field. The rules they have over there for tailgating in their lots are dumb.

Tailgating is a big part of the whole game experience. And I hope they try to accommodate the tailgaters by having a good amount of parking spaces.


Make that LARGER parking spaces!

[smoking_rubber]

The real problem is, most of surface parking will be scattered throughout the surrounding community. Tailgating will be relegated to various tech firms and not adding to the ambiance of the game day experience.

Then, the tailgaters will only stick it out for a year or two. After that, they'll figure out it's wiser to take the party somewhere else and just park in the garage with semi-easy access. Tailgating will become a "back in the day" story for fans.

"Make that LARGER parking spaces!"

You can drive around the Great America vicinity right now and check out the parking space sizes. THAT'S where we'll be.

Rules: We'll be at the mercy of the individual company's lot rules. Since they'll be responsible for the clean-up, you can predict that outcome.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

Dude - it's only your second year as a STH. Relax. I'm guessing you're a dedicated tailgater and have attended a few games in the past. Your worries about parking sure make it seem so.

You are not alone. There are ton's of SERIOUS tailgaters on this message board. Some of us have had conversations about tailgating with various team representatives, at the highest levels.

Please allow me to assure you, the Niners are very concerned about delivering a superior game day experience to their fans - and that includes Tailgatings. Should they go forward with a stadium in Santa Clara (and I sure hope they) all us barbeque smoke loving, asphalt party folk are gonna be just fine.

[Peter Proud]

Dude - it's only your second year as a STH. Relax. I'm guessing you're a dedicated tailgater and have attended a few games in the past. Your worries about parking sure make it seem so.

You are not alone. There are ton's of SERIOUS tailgaters on this message board. Some of us have had conversations about tailgating with various team representatives, at the highest levels.

Please allow me to assure you, the Niners are very concerned about delivering a superior game day experience to their fans - and that includes Tailgatings. Should they go forward with a stadium in Santa Clara (and I sure hope they) all us barbeque smoke loving, asphalt party folk are gonna be just fine.


Let's not forget that the 49ers have their own tailgating area that they promote!

Fred....I'm still carrying the ammo!

[TheWiz]

Has anyone pondered the tailgating situation in Santa Clara? York pulled out of SF because of the necessary parking garage, then plopped a huge garage right next to the Santa Clara site.

You simply could not be sensationalist with your language. First of all, you make the proposed San Francisco garage sound like something you'd find in someone's backyard and yet you make the Santa Claras garage sound like it will marvel the Tower of Babylon.

You couldn't be more wrong.

First of all, the team had a lot more complaints than just the lack of tailgating. It wasn't just a 'necessary parking garage' proposed. It was a monstrosity of a parking garage that Lennar had in mind, on the magnitude of10,000 spaces. It wasn't just a parking garage, it would be one of the largest in the world. To build that garage not only expected one third of fans to fit in there on gameday, but it was a feat of engineering, not a necessity. They proposed a near record sized garage that would block the skyline and at the same time be built right next to the shore. Not only did it make it impossible for a third of the fans to not have tailgating options, but it was a crap shoot to even build. If it did get built, you'd be risking massive damage in any earthquake but it would be more suitable for a Modern Engineering magazine cover than it would be for fans.

The one proposed for the Santa Clara site is only 3 stories tall, not even at high as the sight-line for the stadium, and is actually designed for the handicapped fans. It is a closer walk to the stadium and offers elevators and designated spots for the disabled for non-game usage.


According to the proposal there will be only 6,000 parking spaces on-site. Those are mostly in the garage and the rest will be predominantly handicapped.

So, how do you define on-site? Because the city is also considering expanding the size of the Convention garage to suit stadium needs. It will possibly offer another 3k sites between the Convention center garage and regular parking spots.

The team site says that for a 68k stadium, a quarter of fans are expected to use non-parking space transportation. Between local buses, the light rail, and fans who choose to use a taxi or have a friend drop them off instead of paying parking fees, 17k fans are reasonably expected to not even need a parking spot. In fact, only 19k parking spots are expected to be needed. So, amazingly, only 49k fans will arrive in a vehicle needing parking which is in about 2.5 people per vehicle. So, nearly half of all parking needed will be available at the stadium, the stadium garage, and the convention center. So it uses plenty of garage space. Well, not every fan will want to arrive hours early and like to walk a long distance or tailgate. Perhaps families and senior citizens want to enjoy such festivities. So thinking of relegating about a third of parking to a pair of nearby garages is not heresey, it's necessity.

So that leaves around 10k cars parking that won't be right next to the stadium. Some 17k fans will arive by foot, there is room for around 3k open parking spots in the shadow of the stadium and another 6k+ in garages. Given 17k fans by alternative methods, if only 2 people on average take a parking spot next to the stadium, that's 35 out of 68 fans. So 33k fans will need to park off-site. Just to give you a dose of reality, nearly all urban teams have garages only or need even more fans to park off-site.

You write like you expect a great, utopian stadium. Massive amounts of on-site, non-garage parking with over 75% of fans in a parking lot. Any such site is bound to be located fart from any city and need a vast amount of parking spaces. It would also be an inconvience for most fans to reach and fans without vehicles or in a city would likely complain about driving drives and lack of transportation. The team also couldn't expect to afford a decent stadium with no public support.


So where will the brats be burnin? Across Great America Parkway! 31,000 parking spaces will be available between hwy 237 and hwy 101. That's right! If you plan on tailgating in 2012, plan on walking from Mission College (or equal distance) and back every game day.

Are you serious! Everyone, start to freak out! You may be asked to walk an entire half a mile! That's almost 5 to 8 minutes by foot! I hope you realize that even with ALL parking spots around a circular stadium, most fans will be almost a quarter mile away from the stadium in walking distance. So, really, if our new proposal asks for those fans to walk as far as another quarter mile, the earth may explode! Even the airports closest corner is only ~2.5 miles away from the site and fans can even park there and walk or get an easy cab ride.


Football will become like Basketball. No tailgating. Just park in the garage ($50), buy your beer and dogs at the vendor ($12 beer, $10 dog), watch the game and drive home. No loitering before or after the games. Tradition GONE.

Vast exxageration, excellent! Keep it up, the republican party will surely offer you a position pretty soon.


No one has come out and said it, because no one wants to believe it. But it's all in black and white. That's the plan, according to their proposal. Nothing has been set in stone yet, but there is no way to make the proposed site any bigger. So if the papers are signed, consider it stoned.

It's all black and white? So, an entire council of city planners on top of dozens of opportunities for people to bring this issue up in front of the city, and no one has noticed? Do you actually think you've found something so amazing that the majority of fans don't know about it or is it possible that you're over-reacting?


After Yorks big announcement that he was quiting the Candlestick plan "FOR THE TAILGATERS," he immediately moves to this plan and no one has called him on it.

A day at the game in 2012 will sure be different than it is today. I'll miss the smells, tossing the football, and the camaraderie. Sure, some people will find their spot at Tech Firm A and happily sacrifice a cow. But the environment around the stadium will be like going to Universal Studios.

I'm still waiting for a counterexample. How many tailgating parking spot are required for a 'satisfactory' NFL experience? How many on site space must there be? If the team paid an extra 300M to buy Great America and plow it under to make a massive parking lot full of tailgater that required many fans to walk evne further,would that be unexpeptable? Is a few hundred fans in a corporate lot a mile from the stadium with a shuttle bus to the stadium that much of a detraction from the experience? Why can't fans rally around the over 3k spots alotted next to the stadium along with the walkway filled with music, vendors, and food?

I would love to see what you expect in terms of numbers from the actual gameday experience.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

Thank you Mr. York.


:falldownlaugh:He donne know me ver-wry well, do he.

And just so you knows, TGOTY stands for Tailgator of the Year. Some might say I was one of the Primary Instigators for the group. Now you won't catch ME sayin that - cause I'm too humble and modest.

But others might.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

...
Fred....I'm still carrying the ammo!
I'm thinking you might want to stock up and move up a calibre or two.

I done see dem der three letters have been poppin up agin.

Aww ferget it. Maybe we should think about this kinda shot instead....
:shots:

[Peter Proud]

TheWiz...are you or could you compare the current parking situation at Monster Park and how the current area could relate to the Santa Clara site?

Within the pre-paid parking area, how many VIP spaces are there? How many motorhome spaces? How many regular parking spaces? Distances to actual stadium entrances. 1/4-1/2 mile?

The current dirt lots around the stadium: The hillside area? 1/4 mile The picnic area around the pre-paid lot? 1/2 mile? The Triangle area right off of US 101? 3/4 mile?

What are the current number of spaces available in the corporate business lots between Monster Park and US 101? What is the business arangement that makes it available for game days now?

If you could provide some type of number as to how many tailgating spots as are now currently available as to the same number that might be available at the Santa Clara location. Those who tailgate (set up grills, arrive 4+ hrs. early, party) want to know if the space vs space numbers will be higher or lower.

[smoking_rubber]

You simply could not be sensationalist with your language.

That's because I'm alarmed.


The one proposed for the Santa Clara site is . . . actually designed for the handicapped fans.

I did not know that :up:

. . . thinking of relegating about a third of parking to a pair of nearby garages is not heresey, it's necessity.

I agree. The garage is mandatory on that site. It is an unfortunate but necessary compromise. That does not mean I have to like it.

You write like you expect a great, utopian stadium. Massive amounts of on-site, non-garage parking with over 75% of fans in a parking lot. Any such site is bound to be located fart from any city and need a vast amount of parking spaces. It would also be an inconvience for most fans to reach and fans without vehicles or in a city would likely complain about driving drives and lack of transportation. The team also couldn't expect to afford a decent stadium with no public support.

I do expect a great stadium. Anytime you get the opportunity to design a stadium from scratch, select the best possible location, and control your own budget . . . I expect Utopian. An example of a much better site is located approximately 2 miles north-east of great america. I've done absolutly no research on this site, other than see it on Google earth. It may be already built on. That's not the point. There are other sites available in the Bay Area which would accommodate everyones needs. Their reasons for selecting this particular site are numerous, but mostly selfish. That's a whole separate thread though. I just believe they could have found a site with less required compromises if their criteria were different. Do I want them to ditch their current plans and go to Hunters Point, NO.


Vast exxageration, excellent!
It's all black and white? So, an entire council of city planners on top of dozens of opportunities for people to bring this issue up in front of the city, and no one has noticed? Do you actually think you've found something so amazing that the majority of fans don't know about it or is it possible that you're over-reacting?


Yes, I thought no one noticed! You couldn't tell by the way I over-reacted?

Why can't fans rally around the over 3k spots alotted next to the stadium along with the walkway filled with music, vendors, and food?
I would love to see what you expect in terms of numbers from the actual gameday experience.

I was unaware of the 3k available surface parking spaces near the stadium. I did not see that information in their proposal. I don't completely believe that figure, but you seem informed so I'll take it at face value.

I can't tell you what number of tents and barbecues would make it feel like a football game, but on Sept 10th I'll try to do a quick head-count. Tailgating isn't limited to the 3,000 closest cars. There are people tearing it up in all corners of Monster (I'm sure you're one of them). Some are even a LONG way away. At least they're "on-site" and they add to the overall atmosphere. Anyone who wants to, can drive up in the Honda and whip out the Hibachi. In the future, will it be that easy? I hope so.

I appreciate the well thought responses above from everyone. Yes, I'm a 2nd year STH. I guess I like Monster Park to be honest. I haven't been a STH long enough to hate it. I don't sit in the suites, so I don't mind a little leak. I don't need the heated seats and I don't mind if the field sinks an inch a year (tip: add dirt on top). I like the atmosphere of the games and the parking lot. I look forward to tailgating and mingling with fellow fans. I don't want to trade that in for a day at Universal Studios. That's a lot about what "I" want though. I know they're trying to please more than just me. Knowing that there other fans who feel the same way, is all I need. If there are enough of us, we have to be heard when the plans are discussed. If it's just me . . . "shut up and park you Lemming!"

[TheWiz]

That's because I'm alarmed.

Well I...simply have no rebuttle for that one. :tease:


I did not know that :up:

The garage in concept is supposed to be 3 floors to the west of the stadium. It will have multiple exits facing the stadium and a lot of options have been discussed. Getting approval for even building a stadium is a lot more important than the exact design of the parking garage. Parking at the garage will be the closed parking available as it will right across the walkway. It is expected to feature multiple elevators and for multiple spots around each elevator per floor to be handicap designated. Like the current stadium, special parking arrangements will be possible for fans who are disabled, most likely by designating part of the garage specifically for them.

I would also like for there to be a 4th subterranean floor, if only in part of the building. One accessible only by a separate entrance and exit which would also have a tunnel under the walkway to get into a VIP area for luxury boxes. You're more likely to draw bigger names and celebrities with such amenities.


I agree. The garage is mandatory on that site. It is an unfortunate but necessary compromise. That does not mean I have to like it.

This is true but it would take a field in the middle of nowhere to have the wide-open parking. Besides, most fans aren't interested in open lots. It's a lot of walking to and from cars, it is terrible for bad weather and on sunny days cars can heat up like saunas. Some fans, especially the older and disabled, would rather park close to the stadium in sheltered spots. The new proposed Manhattan stadium for the Giants and Jets is going to be all parking garages and off-site parking. The majority of fans will be arriving from bus, rail, bike, or taxi from across the city. Out of city fans used to NJ open parking will be more likely to take a Greyhound bus into the city than try to find a lot anywhere in the area each weekend.


I do expect a great stadium. Anytime you get the opportunity to design a stadium from scratch, select the best possible location, and control your own budget . . . I expect Utopian. An example of a much better site is located approximately 2 miles north-east of great america. I've done absolutly no research on this site, other than see it on Google earth. It may be already built on. That's not the point. There are other sites available in the Bay Area which would accommodate everyones needs. Their reasons for selecting this particular site are numerous, but mostly selfish. That's a whole separate thread though. I just believe they could have found a site with less required compromises if their criteria were different. Do I want them to ditch their current plans and go to Hunters Point, NO.

Sites are much harder to find than you would like to believe.

- Traffic. Any location has got to find a way to not only have very good access to and from the area but also on a very local scale. There is LOTS of open space out there but most of it is open because it's not in demand. Smaller cities won't have 3 lane boulevards to and from the major highways, have only one major highhway to access it and will be further from the cities. Highway access cannot be bought, widening roads costs a lot of as well.
- Infrastructure. You've also got to figure out how to connect sewage, electrical, water, and data lines. The further out a site is from urban areas built with big enough water and sewage lines and who have easily tapped phone and electrical lines under most major streets, the bigger the cost. Placing new infrastructure in and of itself can cost over hundred of million if not a lot more.

How any of their choices are selfish is beyond me. You can't buy better traffic even if you want to, no amount of stadium cash will get the overall access. Call them very minor, but having the light rail and rail station and a solid local bus authority which will likely cater to team needs are one big plus when considered as a whole. Also, the site has excellent infrastructure in place. They're already looking to spend more out of their own pockets than any previous owner, most of it by forgoing a lot of potential profit sources. Also, they're asking for much less percentage-wise from the city than any other cities have paid out before. They're offering to cover all building and maintennance overruns and shortfalls, respectively along the way. So, excactly where we're skipping out and being cheap or selfish is beyond me. If they wanted to cut corners, they could more easily spend only around 300M, renovate Candlestick and have a pig with lipstick until after 2025 while getting the city and league to help cover most of that cost.


I was unaware of the 3k available surface parking spaces near the stadium. I did not see that information in their proposal. I don't completely believe that figure, but you seem informed so I'll take it at face value.

The stadium design doesn't have the breadth of connected surface parking Candlestick does. Because of the canal, roads, and Great America, it cannot all be surface parking. There already is the potential for an off-site garage at the convention center, though it's just a short walk north of the stadium site. But with a 3-floor garage, that's about 2.7 times the parking possible if it was only surface parking. If the experts say we need room for 19k cars, we can't afford to leave 1k surface spots when we can fit 3k of them in a garage on that space.

There is plenty of room for hundreds of spots to the east and north of the stadium since it will leave ample space away from the canal and Tasman Dr. even though the popular artistic rendering has a little park and no view of the east side of the stadium in those areas. But there are also lots of spaces west of the proposed garage and east across the canal if fans want to see the stadium and also be next to team facilities. The possibility of also renting some nearby plots a few weekends a year is also a possibility, especially at the country club and Mission college. Last time I look there was actually plenty of open land south of the country club where a lot could be built. While Mission is a decent walk SW, it's still got plenty of parking available.


I can't tell you what number of tents and barbecues would make it feel like a football game, but on Sept 10th I'll try to do a quick head-count. Tailgating isn't limited to the 3,000 closest cars. There are people tearing it up in all corners of Monster (I'm sure you're one of them). Some are even a LONG way away. At least they're "on-site" and they add to the overall atmosphere. Anyone who wants to, can drive up in the Honda and whip out the Hibachi. In the future, will it be that easy? I hope so.

The fear that fans will all be scattered into tiny pockets of lots miles from the stadium is unwarranted. If anything, the area right near the stadium will be even more dense since all of the serious tailgaters will fight to get into that area. The walkway will only draw more fans to spend time outside the stadium and in that area too so I'm sure the tailgating spirit will survive.

I appreciate the well thought responses above from everyone. Yes, I'm a 2nd year STH. I guess I like Monster Park to be honest. I haven't been a STH long enough to hate it. I don't sit in the suites, so I don't mind a little leak. I don't need the heated seats and I don't mind if the field sinks an inch a year (tip: add dirt on top). I like the atmosphere of the games and the parking lot. I look forward to tailgating and mingling with fellow fans. I don't want to trade that in for a day at Universal Studios. That's a lot about what "I" want though. I know they're trying to please more than just me. Knowing that there other fans who feel the same way, is all I need. If there are enough of us, we have to be heard when the plans are discussed. If it's just me . . . "shut up and park you Lemming!"[/QUOTE]

There are other fans who feel strongly about a lot of different things. Fans to the north are ticked the team is moving south. Fans in the city are unhappy that what used to be a cheap bus ride will now be a long car ride on top of parking fees. Some fans are ticked because they protest that they don't 'need' HDTV screens and don't mind walking another 100 feet to a concession's stand. But there is no way to please everyone. If the team builds in an area with enough surface parking for massive tailgating you'll probably see costs rise so much that the stadium will be smaller. Then everyone will complain about how hard it is to get tickets or the over quarter mile walk from their RV to the stadium and so on.

By the way, you can't just throw dirt on top. It may make the field a little more dry after you reset the field goal posts to regulation height. But it does nothing for more serious concerns. For example, take a pencil and put it on the edge of your desk with half of it off the edge. Imagine the pencil is a sewer line and the desk it bedrock and/or harder soil. Now imagine pressing down on unsupported end which represents a sinking stadium connect to that line. Only 2 things can occur. The supported end, which probably has roads and concrete and structures above it will snap at the edge of the bedrock/desk. The other possibility is the pencil/pipe holds firm and instead snaps from the open end if you don't break it.

Another complication is that the more the stadium sinks, the faster it could sink depending on the solidity of the soil further down if it doesn't hit rock. Even if it did hit rock, it could get worse and start sinking in only one corner. This is a big reason why any plans to renovate the stadium also include big infrastructure repairs, to prevent the pipelines and such from happening. I also can't tell you exactly how, but I think there are also very expensive ways to stop/slow the sinking because I know of other buildings with similar problems that got fixed. None of them were the size of a football stadium though.

[TheWiz]

TheWiz...are you or could you compare the current parking situation at Monster Park and how the current area could relate to the Santa Clara site?

There are obvious problems to answering your question.

- Candlestick was not built for football. It was built on open land to fit for about 50k baseball fans. Traditionally, baseball fans are not tailgaters and prefer to show up shortly before games and leave when things are decided. On-site parking was a must. Football fans get up to 8 regular season chances per year and have different expectations. Each game is crucial and emphasized and the opportunities are fewer. Not to mention that back in the 50s, urbanization was less prominent and the ballpark had an easy plot to built on.
- Details of the deal Eddie had set up back in the late 90s have since vanished. However, I can say that a large portion of the stadium's east side was involved in the renovation. From removing the fold-out seating, adding a new tower, and new ticket gateways and amenities were involved as was a 3-floor mall along that length of the stadium for year-round shopping and stadium views. If anything, a lot of those nearby spots would've been eaten up and a priority/VIP parking garage along the north side was also involved. Meanwhile Lennar alone owns the specifications for their last Candlestick proposal, which saw almost all of the surface parking vanish into a 10k spot garage.

Overall, I doubt the new stadium will initially have the same tailgating abilities. More of the surface parking spots will be further away. A good number of spots at Mission College, in business lots S-SW of the stadium, and from S to SW of the stadium are not only a quarter to half mile hike but very non-continuous. However, a lot of consideration is being made to making the majority of parking along the stadium's S, W, and N edges into excellent tailgating areas. Not to mention that a lot east of the canal and the country club to the NE have the potential to easily be a tailgate central. The walkway proposal is intended to help recreate a lot of that atmosphre and the hope is that the team will pitch some lots as tail-gating specific areas. Those who want controled, quiet lots will need to walk, pay for the parking garage, or arrive via other methods.


Within the pre-paid parking area, how many VIP spaces are there? How many motorhome spaces? How many regular parking spaces? Distances to actual stadium entrances. 1/4-1/2 mile?

The current dirt lots around the stadium: The hillside area? 1/4 mile The picnic area around the pre-paid lot? 1/2 mile? The Triangle area right off of US 101? 3/4 mile?

I wish I could answer that so easily. I'm no parking authority nor have I spent the time to actually count those spaces. You would actually be more likely to find quick answer as to the volume of parking spots available by emailing the team's parking authorities.


If you could provide some type of number as to how many tailgating spots as are now currently available as to the same number that might be available at the Santa Clara location. Those who tailgate (set up grills, arrive 4+ hrs. early, party) want to know if the space vs space numbers will be higher or lower.

A very good question. I'm willing to bet that if you petitioned the team with this queestion through email that you'd get a decent response.

[FranktheTank]

He donne know me ver-wry well, do he.

And just so you knows, TGOTY stands for Tailgator of the Year. Some might say I was one of the Primary Instigators for the group. Now you won't catch ME sayin that - cause I'm too humble and modest.

But others might.

Your anything but humble and modest when you are tooting your own horn.
So being TGOTY gives you inside info on Mr. york's plans on tailgating? keep teling yourself that:laugh:

[Peter Proud]

Thank you very much!

As a tailgater, I have parked in the dirt lot triangle right off the NB exit of 101 and where 101 crosses over the small street leading toward the stadium. That is about a 1/2 mile away and I wouldn't mind a similar situation in SC specially if the parking stalls were a bit bigger (i.e. designed for tailgating), equiped with port-a-potties (permanet would be better), and on-site security for vehicles. A 1/2 to 3/4 mile walk would not be that bad...after a bit of drinking it might be a good idea.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

Your anything but humble and modest when you are tooting your own horn.
So being TGOTY gives you inside info on Mr. york's plans on tailgating? keep teling yourself that:laugh:
Thanks for noticing! You are too kind. And thanks for posting your opine. You're welcome to it.

But in rebuttle, I must note that I have indeed had opportunity to meet a few members of the Niner front office. And I am not alone. There are a number of other tailgaters on this board who have done so as well.

I'm willing to bet each of us has received assurances from the team regarding their plans to deliver the best game day experience possible.

I think the very fact that they sought us out and spoke with us speaks volumns regarding their concern. If they didn't care, would they take the time?

By the way - thanks for the rep Wiz. Much appreciated.

[The Jerm!]

Your anything but humble and modest when you are tooting your own horn.
So being TGOTY gives you inside info on Mr. york's plans on tailgating? keep teling yourself that:laugh:

He has better information in a tailgating post than you do in all your posts combined.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

He has better information in a tailgating post than you do in all your posts combined.
Now, now Jerm. No need to toot my horn for me.

I'm told I do a pretty good job of it all by myself!:biggrin:

Who am I to argue? Oh well, toot away my young friend - toot away. Us old folk need all the help we can get.

[The Jerm!]

Now, now Jerm. No need to toot my horn for me.

I'm told I do a pretty good job of it all by myself!:biggrin:

Who am I to argue? Oh well, toot away my young friend - toot away. Us old folk need all the help we can get.

:yes: :hatwave:

[smoking_rubber]

Overall, I doubt the new stadium will initially have the same tailgating abilities. More of the surface parking spots will be further away. A good number of spots at Mission College, in business lots S-SW of the stadium, and from S to SW of the stadium are not only a quarter to half mile hike but very non-continuous. However, a lot of consideration is being made to making the majority of parking along the stadium's S, W, and N edges into excellent tailgating areas. Not to mention that a lot east of the canal and the country club to the NE have the potential to easily be a tailgate central. The walkway proposal is intended to help recreate a lot of that atmosphre and the hope is that the team will pitch some lots as tail-gating specific areas. Those who want controled, quiet lots will need to walk, pay for the parking garage, or arrive via other methods.

With all of the corporate sponsored party corners, RV lots, and VIP setups . . . how easy do you think it will be for the AVERAGE (2 games a year) fan to tailgate, within a 1/2 mile walk? Monster gives us the opportunity to tailgate at will. No special advanced parking pass is required to secure a spot suitable to everyones needs. In the future, that ease may be replaced by "only select groups tailgate." Kinda establishes a "Have" and "Have Not" by separating the opportunities of the casual fan, versus the veteran STH. I see the culture of tailgating shifting from the average-joe bumper party, to the KSJO / Hewlett Packard Roast Off. Will there be conscious actions taken to ensure ample tailgating space for the casual fan as well as Corporate Party Corner. Most of my concern revolves around the actual space available. There is not a lot of it IMO.

The numbers you mentioned above are low in some cases. There WILL be conventions going on during some game days. You've highlighted what the low end of the spectrum looks like, now inflate those numbers for an early September opener with Great America raging and an Auto Convention going on at the same time. Not to mention, how will this effect the business of the country club and the Westin. The overflow will have to park in the outlying areas. Approximately 30,000 people would walk down and across Great America Parkway after the game? I'm not saying it's an unworkable plan, but with all the years and money they've spent looking for a location and this is the best they can come up with?

I don't believe I ever said they were cheap or cutting corners. I said their reasons for selecting this site were SLIGHTLY selfish. I said that because after all the options available, they still selected the relatively small parking lot right next door to their HQ. Then they essentially announced that they selected that spot because their HQ was there, because if they had to move, they would take their HQ with them. I don't want to debate their reasons for moving their HQ, I just wanted to explain/validate my "selfish" remark. It's a game of compromise. They compromised our tailgating/parking opportunities
for pre-existing mass transit. They compromised our ease of access for THEIR ease of access. IN MY OPINION.

ADDITIONALLY: Even if it's 10,000 people heading out into the evening, that's a lot of people. Monster is set up with perimeter gates which funnel people to the crosswalks. I don't know how much crowd-control is possible along GAP and Tasman. There are times when those two roads get a TON of traffic. There are also times when it's spooky empty.

[Peter Proud]

In regards to parking at and or around the new stadium, I certainly hope that the 49ers do not intend for the 'open parking' which is exactly what the tailgaters use to have the same vehicle size limits that have eliminated every extended cab truck or extended SUV. Make the 'open parking spaces' of a size that is consistant with fans that love to tailgate.

If there is to be a parking garage, let those spaces be consistant with what was available in the past. They won't be able to use grills in the parking garage anyway.

[smoking_rubber]

The new surface parking lots in the stadium vicinity will probably be designed to accommodate tailgating activity. But there will not be much of it, so they will need to squeeze as many spots out of it as they can. How they accomplish both goals, will show their ingenuity and imagination. The Tech Firms will support a lot of parking, but you can drive around and see that they're already designed for compact commuter cars. They'll fit an F150 or two in there, but they'll be trying to squeeze every dollar out of every available space. These lots typically have large swaths of grass surrounding them, so I imagine the party will be under the trees. That could work out pretty good for the early arrivals.

[Teke]

Is anyone planning on discussing this in one of the meetings? I'm not really sure of the schedule but I think that tailgating is a serious issue. The fans can't let this one go.

[smoking_rubber]

Tailgating is a very serious issue to the fans. Unfortunately, it's a minor issue to the team.

[Teke]

Well of course it is when only 3 guys are *****ing about it on a message board.

It becomes an issue to the team when they've got 40 protestors at their panel meetings with the Santa Clara city council. Any kind of roadblock that gets put in front of the team's effort to build the stadium will become an issue that they will need to weigh thoughtfully. At the present, it seems as though they've kind of just cast the idea of having tailgators to the side.

BTW - I don't happen to tailgate, but I do cherish the tradition of it. I certainly don't want to see it go because York doesn't see it as a necessity. PeterProud, you going to be mobilizing a protest?

[smoking_rubber]

I hope it doesn't become a rallying cause for protest against the overall stadium project. I do hope there are extensive discussions on the topic prior to final approval. I think it's an issue that should be highlighted, prioritized and resolved. I would be unable to drive up for most meetings, but I hope there is some sort of fan/tailgater representative to demand design consideration.

[Peter Proud]

Well of course it is when only 3 guys are *****ing about it on a message board.

It becomes an issue to the team when they've got 40 protestors at their panel meetings with the Santa Clara city council. Any kind of roadblock that gets put in front of the team's effort to build the stadium will become an issue that they will need to weigh thoughtfully. At the present, it seems as though they've kind of just cast the idea of having tailgators to the side.

BTW - I don't happen to tailgate, but I do cherish the tradition of it. I certainly don't want to see it go because York doesn't see it as a necessity. PeterProud, you going to be mobilizing a protest?

I've got faith that the 49ers will do the right thing. While I hope to see spaces that are a bit larger, I understand the economics of the situation. There's no sense in protesting something that hasn't angered you yet. It wait and see time now.

[smoking_rubber]

Just to compare the two parking situations side-by-side:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/smoking_rubber/sfsite.jpghttp://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/smoking_rubber/scsite.jpg

The site on the left is Monster Park. We all know how crowded the parking lot gets and how far it extends. The picture on the right is the proposed Santa Clara site. Subtract whatever parking is required for the Amusement Park, then drop in a stadium and small garage . . . how much do you think is left over for surface (tailgating) parking?

[smoking_rubber]

By my eye, it looks like the brown patch of parking on the opposite side of the canal is all that's left to tailgate on. That patch will become the main parking lot. Compare that to Monster's main lot and then consider how full that thing actually gets. How far does game day parking ACTUALLY extend at Candlestick? Is it rare to back up all the way to 101?

BTW the scale on these two photos is identical. Both were taken from 9,520 ft.

[ethanh]

Thanks for putting up those pics together. The 49es have already said they are going to lease corporate lots like at Shoreline. Do not ask me how that works for Monday or Thursday night games. There will probably also be some sort of outter lots with shuttles bringing you in or the light rail. Very Lame in my opinion but the 49ers seem convinced, so lets see how they polish this up to present to the fans... if it gets that far.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

Ethanh has got it just about right. I posted the information provided by the team in the Hunter's point thread. (Click here.) (http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/showpost.php?p=884282&postcount=76)

There is plenty of parking nearby - this is a non-issue.

Oh, and by the way - I call FIRST DIBS on the corner parking space located nearest to the stadium inside that little blue square between the golf course and Tasman Drive!

I can go hit balls on the driving range while the beer is chilling in the cooler! :dance3:

[ethanh]

I call the parking space in the corporate lot next to the fountain . That way I have a place to swim, piss, and wash my BBQ dishes at our tailgate.:wink:

Saying the parking in SC is not an issue is not entirely correct, They say there are enough spaces but will it work out and will companies be on board with people making themselves at home in their lots?

[Fromthe3rdRow]

I call the parking space in the corporate lot next to the fountain . That way I have a place to swim, piss, and wash my BBQ dishes at our tailgate.:wink:

Saying the parking in SC is not an issue is not entirely correct, They say there are enough spaces but will it work out and will companies be on board with people making themselves at home in their lots?
Dish washing?!? What's that? At a tailgate?

Dude, you either gotta kill some trees and use paper plates, or serve food so tasty your guests return their plates clean as a whistle... :biggrin:

As for parking - during a recent City Council meeting, one of the team representatives told me they have already held preliminary talks with a few of the companies in the area. They don't believe this will be a problem. After all - their lots are typically empty on a Sunday.

And let's not forget, there are still plenty of additional spaces at nearby Mission College. They use shuttles to transport fans from parking lots to the stadium in Arizona and a few other places - it's no big deal.

Of course, the hand rails on the shuttle might get a little sticky from all the barbeque sauce - but I think I could live with that!

[Teke]

Oh great, so let's all put our future tailgating experience in the hands of "the employee" who whispers "no problem" to fromthe3rdrow. I'd like to see a plan that works Sunday through Saturday for the next 40 years. Something with our own parking lot.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

Oh great, so let's all put our future tailgating experience in the hands of "the employee" who whispers "no problem" to fromthe3rdrow. I'd like to see a plan that works Sunday through Saturday for the next 40 years. Something with our own parking lot.
Sunday through Saturday for the next 40 years?

Wow - that's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

I recommend you read the parking and transportation plan the team has presented to the city so you can base your criticisms on facts instead of fantasy. You can find the plan by following the link above.

[Nevyn]

Oh great, so let's all put our future tailgating experience in the hands of "the employee" who whispers "no problem" to fromthe3rdrow. I'd like to see a plan that works Sunday through Saturday for the next 40 years. Something with our own parking lot.

Or what?

[smoking_rubber]

Yeah, 40 years! That's how long they expect the stadium to be there. What are they going to do to promote tailgating for the next 40 years? Looks like they're going to cram as much stuff and garages in that area as possible. They're not trying to have the fans interests served with this plan. That area is condensed NOW, whats it going to be like in 20-30 years. What does the Master Plan envision for the tailgating community? It appears to me, they would prefer it if we would all arrive by trolley or park in the garages and just go home. They would certainly prefer it if most of us would do that. The problem is: they're not leaving us much choice.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

Yeah, 40 years! That's how long they expect the stadium to be there. What are they going to do to promote tailgating for the next 40 years? Looks like they're going to cram as much stuff and garages in that area as possible. They're not trying to have the fans interests served with this plan. That area is condensed NOW, whats it going to be like in 20-30 years. What does the Master Plan envision for the tailgating community? It appears to me, they would prefer it if we would all arrive by trolley or park in the garages and just go home. They would certainly prefer it if most of us would do that. The problem is: they're not leaving us much choice.

Wow. 40 years. Four whole decades. The better part of a half century. You know, if you have kids, they could be grand parents by then.

And you want details on how the team will be promoting tailgating during that time?

I thinkthis may be a little unrealistic. Oh, and by the way, the team is offering to sign a long term 30 year lease to use the new stadium. Not quite 40 years, but still - a very long time.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

I'm sure this has asked and answered somewhere...but as a season ticket holder if they do move do you still have your seats/tickets at the new stadium?

Great question Frosty. I wish I knew the answer. I don't think the team has made any announcements on this yet. It is way to early. I'm guessing they will start working on that level of detail only AFTER they get a deal finalized for a new stadium. Until then, it's a moot point.

But you gotta figure, the layout will be diffent, the seating will be different. It's not like they can unbolt my seats and install them in the new stadium. There will probably be some sort of changes - we'll have to wait and see.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

That is the part I have been wondering also.
True, but it's not like there is no room for improvement.

Have you ever had to sit in one of those seats with a big steel pole right in front of you?

There are some seriously BAD seats at the 'Stick. Hopefully they will eliminate those.

Change can be a GOOD thing.....

[Peter Proud]

I'm sure this has asked and answered somewhere...but as a season ticket holder if they do move do you still have your seats/tickets at the new stadium?

Many questions are answered here:

http://www.supportourniners.com/FAQ.php

Notice that the seating/ticket/SBL questions can not be answered until there is an agreement signed.

[smoking_rubber]

Here's a little tailgating related story out of New Orleans . . .

http://tulane.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=447832

Notice how they tailgate on TOP of the garages? They charge $550 per game for one of the reserved tailgating spaces though. That's for a 30x30 space. Smaller ones are cheaper.

What is Santa Clara's policy regarding garage tailgating?
.

[TheWiz]

Here's a little tailgating related story out of New Orleans . . .

http://tulane.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=447832

Notice how they tailgate on TOP of the garages? They charge $550 per game for one of the reserved tailgating spaces though. That's for a 30x30 space. Smaller ones are cheaper.

What is Santa Clara's policy regarding garage tailgating?
.

This does remain a possibility. It's not too hard to build the top of the parking garage so that it is a 'green' surface complete with power hookups and a grass surface which could be catered as the best place to tailgate. You'd have a great view of the surrounding area and a straight view of the front of the stadium at a premium price. Something like putting in a green surface and power outlets is very cheap compared to the returns.

[smoking_rubber]

This does remain a possibility. It's not too hard to build the top of the parking garage so that it is a 'green' surface complete with power hookups and a grass surface which could be catered as the best place to tailgate. You'd have a great view of the surrounding area and a straight view of the front of the stadium at a premium price. Something like putting in a green surface and power outlets is very cheap compared to the returns.

Having a street party raging on the ground while the upper levels sacrifice the yearly Ram, sounds like a great time. What can/will the 49ers do to ensure that this is permissible under Santa Clara's guidelines?

Does the "great design" extend to the parking structure so that we'll be able to bbq on multiple levels? This could be accommodated with special ventilation or an ingeniously designed "open" floor plan.

A grass covered parking garage huh? That's a very interesting idea. With the proper lighting conduit it could be done on every level. I believe there is a silicon valley firm leading the industry in this field already. Just a thought.

The extra $550 a space (30'x30') just to eat a hot dog is kinda steep! I bet I could almost get a luxury box for that money. Hopefully, there will be enough spots for anyone to come get a space and enjoy the tailgating tradition. I also hope they stick to this theme and make sure ALL of the new parking structures are built to accommodate tailgating.

As for power plugs, I doubt they would make those available unless they were charging a PREMIUM price for those spaces. I would prefer to park cheap and bring my own power.

[TheWiz]

Having a street party raging on the ground while the upper levels sacrifice the yearly Ram, sounds like a great time. What can/will the 49ers do to ensure that this is permissible under Santa Clara's guidelines?

Does the "great design" extend to the parking structure so that we'll be able to bbq on multiple levels? This could be accommodated with special ventilation or an ingeniously designed "open" floor plan.

A grass covered parking garage huh? That's a very interesting idea. With the proper lighting conduit it could be done on every level. I believe there is a silicon valley firm leading the industry in this field already. Just a thought.

The extra $550 a space (30'x30') just to eat a hot dog is kinda steep! I bet I could almost get a luxury box for that money. Hopefully, there will be enough spots for anyone to come get a space and enjoy the tailgating tradition. I also hope they stick to this theme and make sure ALL of the new parking structures are built to accommodate tailgating.

As for power plugs, I doubt they would make those available unless they were charging a PREMIUM price for those spaces. I would prefer to park cheap and bring my own power.

I can't say with any certainty but I'm sure that Santa Clara currently has no hardline laws about public usage of parking garages. Not to mention that they could easily be persuaded by a stadium authority to grant expections.

I was referring mostly to only the top level of the parking garage. Lower levels provide weather protection and much better handicapped access than a grass covered roof. It's not about building a garage for tailgaters, as garages are built for access and ease, not partying. The price would be high but for a guaranteed plot of that size one could throw a fairly sizeable party, that's the tradeoff. Also, plugs would easily be available. Given how there would be a start and end time to your lease on the spot and probably a master switch for those spots, you could only draw so much power out. The team could even invest in solar cell panels on top of the luxury tower that over the course of a week could store all of the energy needed.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

I can't say with any certainty but I'm sure that Santa Clara currently has no hardline laws about public usage of parking garages. Not to mention that they could easily be persuaded by a stadium authority to grant expections.

I was referring mostly to only the top level of the parking garage. Lower levels provide weather protection and much better handicapped access than a grass covered roof. It's not about building a garage for tailgaters, as garages are built for access and ease, not partying. The price would be high but for a guaranteed plot of that size one could throw a fairly sizeable party, that's the tradeoff. Also, plugs would easily be available. Given how there would be a start and end time to your lease on the spot and probably a master switch for those spots, you could only draw so much power out. The team could even invest in solar cell panels on top of the luxury tower that over the course of a week could store all of the energy needed.
Solar panels!! Very cool. And perhaps they can be connected to the city's utility grid to return power to the system when not in use. That might help free up some of that extra utility cash they got lying around. :rolleyes2:

[Teke]

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