View Full Version : Carmen Policy Set to Join San Francisco Stadium Effort
rubi9er
10-07-2007, 09:37 PM
Just came across this one in the San Jose Mercury News ... not official yet however ...
:sf49:
By Tim Kawakami
Sunday, October 7th, 2007 at 9:30 pm in 49ers.
"There’s not much involving the 49ers’ 1,000-year journey towards a new stadium that gets me intrigued any more.
Santa Clara: Fine. Sounds nice.
San Francisco: OK. Whatever.
Just let me know when there’s a ground-breaking. By 2019, perhaps?
But hearing that the city of San Francisco is close to announcing the hiring of Carmen Policy as part of the effort to build a new 49ers stadium at the Naval Shipyard, near Hunter’s Point…
Well, that’s a big one. And I just heard it a few minutes ago from a sterling source."
http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/kawakami/2007/10/07/late-breaker-carmen-policy-set-to-join-san-francisco-stadium-effort/
young tone
10-07-2007, 09:42 PM
Oh man, wow if this is true this is big news for us
wOOt, bring back Eddy D too!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, Eddie can run the offshore casino . . .
krueger70
10-08-2007, 06:48 AM
Not good news for those wanting the "Santa Clara 49ers"!:hoppy:
Rattlehead
10-08-2007, 07:13 AM
Not good news for those wanting the "Santa Clara 49ers"!:hoppy:
Which means it's really good news! :dance3:
To hell with Santa Clara or any other place outside the city. :hunter:
ethanh
10-08-2007, 07:18 AM
Another Link:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/08/BA1BSL4D7.DTL
While Policy will be reporting to the mayor's office, Lennar Corp. - which is behind the stadium and Candlestick developments - will be footing the bill for his work as well as for the ballot referendum.
Policy was at the side of then-49ers owner Eddie DeBartolo when the 1997 bond measure narrowly passed. But then came DeBartolo's fall from grace as he was caught up in a federal bribery scandal involving the former governor of Louisiana.
Team ownership transferred to DeBartolo's sister Denise and her husband, John York, Policy left to run the Cleveland Browns, and now - after many years of butting heads in San Francisco - the Yorks plan to move to Santa Clara.
Last month - on the very day Policy appeared on a Commonwealth Club panel to talk about the Niners' stadium plans - Newsom invited Policy to breakfast to ask him to help the city try to keep the team.
Policy agreed, but only on the condition that both the league and the Yorks would deal with him - assurances he soon got.
krueger70
10-08-2007, 08:00 AM
Which means it's really good news! :dance3:
To hell with Santa Clara or any other place outside the city. :hunter:You mean a city like Santa Clara that really wouldn't qualify to have a professional sports franchise, but since they are located near a major league city they think they can shift them over with empty promises?
Should be interesting when the Oakland A's become - The Bay Area Athletics of Fremont. Will make that franchise the ALL-TIME small market team!!
Fromthe3rdRow
10-08-2007, 10:15 AM
Carmen was involved the last time San Francisco attempted to replace the stadium at Candlestick Point. His support, as a Niner employee, did little to advance the project.
Now Lennar hires him to be a PR front man for the dog of a proposal at Hunters Point? Laughable - I doubt Joe Montana would be able to rescue plans to build a stadium on top of a Superfund toxic waste dump.
Roaring Back
10-08-2007, 11:50 AM
Laughable - I doubt Joe Montana would be able to rescue plans to build a stadium on top of a Superfund toxic waste dump.
The China Basin stadium site had to be cleared of toxic waste too. But of course, that didn't work out very well in the end.:hoppy:
krueger70
10-08-2007, 01:00 PM
Carmen was involved the last time San Francisco attempted to replace the stadium at Candlestick Point. His support, as a Niner employee, did little to advance the project.
Now Lennar hires him to be a PR front man for the dog of a proposal at Hunters Point? Laughable - I doubt Joe Montana would be able to rescue plans to build a stadium on top of a Superfund toxic waste dump.If you recall, the change of 49ers ownership was also taking place. Therefore the project took a back seat.
Carmen's very capable, and the city of San Francisco will reap the fruits of his labor.
Carmen gets things done my friend. This is great news even though Santa Clara is closer for me to drive, I'd prefer a to be able to tailgate. :flex:
sandiegojoe
10-08-2007, 04:14 PM
The China Basin stadium site had to be cleared of toxic waste too. But of course, that didn't work out very well in the end.:hoppy:
much smaller, much less contaminated. Not really comparable.
TheWiz
10-08-2007, 04:30 PM
I'm not sure you can trust the financial support of a guy who signed all of those veteran deals in 1996 ansd 1997 and proceeded to run like the ****ens when our 18M+ cap defecit came due. Contrary to public belief, his mismanagement led to a string of events that left us with even fewer options by the time Walsh left as GM and led to our 2004 season.
Funny how it works. The guy built a bomb, set the timer, and ran from the city and when it exploded in Donahue's face you all blame Donahue. Not that Donahue was good, but what Policy did was even worse, everyone's enthusiasm over him is unwarranted.
Then he went to CLE and did such a poor job there he wasn't kept around for very long either.
ethanh
10-08-2007, 06:02 PM
I'm not sure you can trust the financial support of a guy who signed all of those veteran deals in 1996 ansd 1997 and proceeded to run like the ****ens when our 18M+ cap defecit came due. Contrary to public belief, his mismanagement led to a string of events that left us with even fewer options by the time Walsh left as GM and led to our 2004 season.
Funny how it works. The guy built a bomb, set the timer, and ran from the city and when it exploded in Donahue's face you all blame Donahue. Not that Donahue was good, but what Policy did was even worse, everyone's enthusiasm over him is unwarranted.
Then he went to CLE and did such a poor job there he wasn't kept around for very long either.
WIZ they are not asking for Carmen to work the salary cap. He is a big name, more popular and respected than York. He is a name that will get attention and press.
In my opinion it is a smart move, a face from the championships. It seems the 49ers have no players/ staff from our glory years associated with the team anymore. We need to start bringing them back into the fold, trying to be like Baltimore is not much fun right now.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-08-2007, 06:39 PM
WIZ they are not asking for Carmen to work the salary cap. He is a big name, more popular and respected than York. He is a name that will get attention and press.
In my opinion it is a smart move, a face from the championships. It seems the 49ers have no players/ staff from our glory years associated with the team anymore. We need to start bringing them back into the fold, trying to be like Baltimore is not much fun right now.
Ehhhhhhnnn. Wrong answer.
Study your 49er history a little deeper before making such a claim. Me thinks you are misconstrueing Eddie Debartelo's good name with Carmen Policy's. (And I use "good name" in a very, very qualified manner.)
Policy's history with the Niners may not be as clear as you think. Many of the things he was responsible for did not appear in the newspapers. It was a different time back then. You will need to read a few of the books written by former players if you want a better understanding.
And the truth of the matter is that the Niners DO have players from the glory years on staff and associated with the team. Go to their main website and look for the page about the front office. I've met and spoken with Jesse Sapulo, Eric Wright and a few others from the Player Alumni association. The team makes a concerted effort to maintain relationships with the player alumni. Suggesting that the team does not is incorrect and unfair.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-08-2007, 06:41 PM
If you recall, the change of 49ers ownership was also taking place. Therefore the project took a back seat.
Carmen's very capable, and the city of San Francisco will reap the fruits of his labor.
Uhm, no.
Since he will apparently be a paid employee of the Lennar Corporation - I'm willing to bet the fruits of his labor are going some where else - and I can assure you - it won't end up in the pockets of San Francisco city residents .....:stirthepot:
Fromthe3rdRow
10-08-2007, 06:43 PM
Carmen gets things done my friend. This is great news even though Santa Clara is closer for me to drive, I'd prefer a to be able to tailgate. :flex:Dude, I'm going to tailgate before every single game I attend, no matter where they might end up. That's a given.
As for whether or not Carmen gets things done - well, maybe we should ask who introduced Eddie to the former Governor of Louisiana .....
ethanh
10-08-2007, 07:21 PM
Ehhhhhhnnn. Wrong answer.
Study your 49er history a little deeper before making such a claim. Me thinks you are misconstrueing Eddie Debartelo's good name with Carmen Policy's. (And I use "good name" in a very, very qualified manner.)
Policy's history with the Niners may not be as clear as you think. Many of the things he was responsible for did not appear in the newspapers. It was a different time back then. You will need to read a few of the books written by former players if you want a better understanding.
And the truth of the matter is that the Niners DO have players from the glory years on staff and associated with the team. Go to their main website and look for the page about the front office. I've met and spoken with Jesse Sapulo, Eric Wright and a few others from the Player Alumni association. The team makes a concerted effort to maintain relationships with the player alumni. Suggesting that the team does not is incorrect and unfair.
Carmen Policy was with the 49ers since 1983 and with them through 4 Super Bowls. He was a president and chief executive officer during that time and gets a lot of credit (why we know his name) for helping the team win championships. You can school me on what shady deals he did or how he paid for things, I do not know or care. The fact is he puts validity in the HP site that was not there before. What former 49er champion is pushing the SC site?
As for the 49er staff you are right: Eric Wright, Guy McNtyer and Jesse Sapulo are on the staff. But the fact I had to look them up tells me their role is not very prominent. Their jobs are not helping bring championships.
ftn49
10-08-2007, 09:23 PM
Not good news for those wanting the "Santa Clara 49ers"!:hoppy:
I don't think most people care wether it is in San Francisco or Santa Clara, they just want a stadium that isn't a piece of garbage, and Santa Clara seems more likely to be able to get the job done.
Coldrain85
10-08-2007, 10:31 PM
Carmen Policy was overrated when he was with the team, and on many occasions he took credit when it was not his to take. I was glad when he left SF, and I don't want to see him in these parts again. His salary cap violations set the team back for many years. Don't forget that the team was also stripped of draft picks because of Policy and his misdeeds. The fact that Lenar is shoving a wad of money up his asss so he can pimp a stadium deal to the city means absolutely nothing to me. If anything, it's a bad omen.
If Policy is getting behind the Hunter's Point proposal, then I like it even less than before.
What former 49er champion is pushing the SC site?
I don't think the wiz or third row can answer that one. :perfect10:
Fromthe3rdRow
10-08-2007, 11:31 PM
I don't think the wiz or third row can answer that one. :perfect10:Actually, I think the team and the city of Santa Clara have so far allowed the proposal to stand on it's own merits.
The very fact that they have not felt it necessary to, oh, what were those words again , "shove a wad of money up [someone's] asss so he can pimp a stadium deal".... sort of speaks for itself.
Dude, I literally fell on the floor laughing when I read that. :biggrin:
Actually, I think the team and the city of Santa Clara have so far allowed the proposal to stand on it's own merits.
The very fact that they have not felt it necessary to, oh, what were those words again , "shove a wad of money up [someone's] asss so he can pimp a stadium deal".... sort of speaks for itself.
Dude, I literally fell on the floor laughing when I read that. :biggrin:
Why won't anyone besides current management and Santa Clara officials get behind the deal? It seems like the Santa Clara proposal is disliked by fans who like to tailgate, fans who want a stadium that doesn't look like it was built in the 1970's, all of the previous players and staff of great 49ers teams of the past, current California senators and legislators.
Which type of fan likes the Santa Clara stadium? Someone who lives closer to Santa Clara than SF. Someone who never tailgates and thinks tailgaters are icky. Someone who sides against all former 49er personnel who made our team what they are today.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-08-2007, 11:45 PM
.... You can school me on what shady deals he did or how he paid for things, I do not know or care. Uhmm, no. I will not school you. For starters, you won't listen. Secondly, this is a public forum. I'm not gonna give you a detailed history of Policy's past misdeeds.
I don't claim to know the man personally. I formed my opinion based on what others have written about him. If you honestly want to become a knowledgable fan - you're gonna have to do the work yourself. Don't expect me to give you a book report.
The fact is he puts validity in the HP site that was not there before. And so, how can you possibly make this statement if you honestly don't know what he's really done?
As for the 49er staff you are right: Eric Wright, Guy McNtyer and Jesse Sapulo are on the staff. I was what? Gee, imagine that.:bubble:
But the fact I had to look them up tells me their role is not very prominent. Their jobs are not helping bring championships. Ya see, I know you're a young guy, and passionate about your team. But was it really necessary to insult these great former players? I know what they do and have seen both of them doing it. They work hard contributing to the success of the team. Disrespecting them like that is totally uncalled for.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-08-2007, 11:57 PM
Why won't anyone besides current management and Santa Clara officials get behind the deal? It seems like the Santa Clara proposal is disliked by fans who like to tailgate, fans who want a stadium that doesn't look like it was built in the 1970's, all of the previous players and staff of great 49ers teams of the past, current California senators and legislators.
Which type of fan likes the Santa Clara stadium? Someone who lives closer to Santa Clara than SF. Someone who never tailgates and thinks tailgaters are icky. Someone who sides against all former 49er personnel who made our team what they are today.
Teke. I know you're a long time poster here. I've read lots of your stuff with interest. But you have never been more off base than you are with the post above.
By "current management" I assume you really meant the team owners. You know, the York family. The people that make the real financial decisions regarding the Niners. And you also mean the current governing body of the city of Santa Clara. Uhm - since they are the two central parties in their proposal - it seems to me theirs are the only opinions which really matter at this point. After all, the proposal is still in the discussion phases, nothing has been finalized.
The tailgate issue was totally fabricated by someone with bad data. He claimed there was insufficient parking spaces for tailgating. He based his opinion on Yahoo map photos. In truth, the current proposal provides for MORE parking spaces than currently available at Candlestick point. I don't know about you, but it seems to me there is plenty of room for tailgating at the stick. Doesn't look like a problem to me.
As for who else may or may not support the issue, I suggest you visit the city of Santa Clara's website regarding the stadium proposal. The site is maintained by the city manager's staff. They have done an excellent job in carefully documenting the proposal process and public opinion both for and against. I can tell you what I believe and how I feel, but I'm sensing my opinon matters little.
Please - get the facts. I'm sure your posts will be much more accurate once you read up on it a little.
Niner Jan
10-09-2007, 12:14 AM
I concur with post #25 about the governing bodies for the SC Stadium. Again, go to the SC CC website and read everything you don't know (and should--before you debate the facts).
There are 5 former 49ers who are still serving the 49ers in an organizational capacity. If you look on the homepage, you will find the Alumni Coordinators, several of whom have already been mentioned. I think that Steve Bono has been omitted in the discussion. These 5 men are in contact with former 49ers for different events.
Before you accuse the current corporate team of not being as great as during the glory years, you really should research first.
Carmen Policy is a lawyer and a politician. I don't want to add much to that because I have no respect for what he and DC did when they fled SF to run Cleveland--and not very successfully, either, leaving the 49ers in the lurch.
From the 3rd Row (Fred) knows more about the SC stadium than any fan on this MB. He was present at most of the SC CC meetings to listen and to speak up for the 49ers. How many of our fans can say they did as much?
By "current management" I assume you really meant the team owners. You know, the York family. The people that make the real financial decisions regarding the Niners. And you also mean the current governing body of the city of Santa Clara. Uhm - since they are the two central parties in their proposal - it seems to me theirs are the only opinions which really matter at this point. After all, the proposal is still in the discussion phases, nothing has been finalized.
I don't think it's a good idea that we put our hopes toward the only two entities which stand to make a profit off of this deal.
I'd rather trust in the fans since I am one myself and will probably be paying for an SBL or two. I guess you could call me an investor since without me York wouldnt be able to build his stadium. With that said, I will look at the overall picture including what our state legislators think on the subject and what our former 49er greats have to say since they made our franchise what they are today.
The tailgate issue was totally fabricated by someone with bad data. He claimed there was insufficient parking spaces for tailgating. He based his opinion on Yahoo map photos. In truth, the current proposal provides for MORE parking spaces than currently available at Candlestick point. I don't know about you, but it seems to me there is plenty of room for tailgating at the stick. Doesn't look like a problem to me.
:link:
Carmen Policy is a lawyer and a politician. I don't want to add much to that because I have no respect for what he and DC did when they fled SF to run Cleveland--and not very successfully, either, leaving the 49ers in the lurch.
Hmm, that was the one bad thing Carmen Policy ever did with the 49ers. What about the numerous great things he did. Stop with the ra-ra type posts and put things into perspective. I'd love to have seen your perspective on Carmen Policy in 1990 after the 49ers had won their 4th Super Bowl.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 12:32 AM
I concur with post #25 about the governing bodies for the SC Stadium. Again, go to the SC CC website and read everything you don't know (and should--before you debate the facts).
There are 5 former 49ers who are still serving the 49ers in an organizational capacity. If you look on the homepage, you will find the Alumni Coordinators, several of whom have already been mentioned. I think that Steve Bono has been omitted in the discussion. These 5 men are in contact with former 49ers for different events.
Before you accuse the current corporate team of not being as great as during the glory years, you really should research first.
Carmen Policy is a lawyer and a politician. I don't want to add much to that because I have no respect for what he and DC did when they fled SF to run Cleveland--and not very successfully, either, leaving the 49ers in the lurch.
From the 3rd Row (Fred) knows more about the SC stadium than any fan on this MB. He was present at most of the SC CC meetings to listen and to speak up for the 49ers. How many of our fans can say they did as much?
Now, now. I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure there are others who know more - I just have the biggest mouth!:biggrin:
I do admit I paid attention during the meetings I attended, read every single news story I can get my hands on and ask questions each time I meet a member of the team's front office.
The biggest thing I have learned about his issue is that it is nearly impossible to change someone elses opinion on this subject. Most are convinced they know what is best for the team and it's fans.
n truth, they do know what is best - for one fan - themselves. I now understand their opinion is stongly influenced by their knowledge of that one fan. I was sort of shocked when I realized that to them - there is only one fan who really matters - and it wasn't me!
So now, all I can really do is attempt to focus the discussion in here on actual facts. I do my best to point other fans in the proper direction to find the facts and to form their own opinions based on those facts.
My opinion really doesn't matter that much - after all, I'm just another fan....
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 12:55 AM
I don't think it's a good idea that we put our hopes toward the only two entities which stand to make a profit off of this deal.See, now if you had read the preliminary financial proposal you would know who will or will not "profit" from the stadium. If you believe stadium opponants - no one will - they claim it will lose more money than Al Davis stole from Oakland. (J/K Al - please don't sue me too!)
I'd rather trust in the fans since I am one myself and will probably be paying for an SBL or two. I guess you could call me an investor since without me York wouldnt be able to build his stadium. With that said, I will look at the overall picture....
Man, I was behind you 100%. I was willing to overlook the fact that it might be risky to trust some fans - (Some of them are freaking crazy!) but as a potential co-investor, I agree - you gotta look at the whole picture. But then you said this...
including what our state legislators think on the subject... Now there you lost me. Are you serious? Do you really think Fienstein or Midgen really have the best interests of the team and its fans at heart? They are both simply looking for political currency. Trust me, neither one really gives a hoot about yourtailgate plans - or mine.
:link:Stadium parking issues were discussed ad nauseum in the "Satellite Pictures" thread which is still on the first page of this forum. (And if at some point you have to decide between what The Wiz has to say, and another poster in the thread - I recommend you believe The Wiz. He really does know what he's talking about.
Niner Jan
10-09-2007, 01:12 AM
Stop with the ra-ra type posts and put things into perspective.
You don't like my supportive posts? TOUGH! God knows we need more supportive FAITHFUL on this MB.
You may not agree with my posts, but you have no right to insult me by referring to them in the sarcastic manner in which you did.
I'm not a lawyer fancier--and that's a fact! They don't work for free, and neither did rich man Policy; he padded his pockets well while he was the 49ers. He didn't work for gratis. And he hot-footed it when he cast the 49ers in salary cap hell--from which it took the Corporation many years to get out of the predicament it was in and had to release a lot of our fine players because of the cap problem. That wasn't a small bad thing that he did to the 49ers and he was responsible for it.
OTOH, Carmen Policy was not the one who won the games and trophies. The players did that.
Before the era of the salary cap, Eddie was able to spend freely of his money in order to get the best players. Cost was not a factor. But once the salary cap went into effect, he tried to skirt the issue and make shady deals (in which he was caught) with some of our great players of the Super Bowl era.
In fact, our modern post-Super Bowl era began when we had to start letting go some of those players because of the effects of the salary cap--when we had to start paying penalties because of what he did.
You can cheer all you want for Policy, but I feel that the best policy is NO policy in our current era.
You don't like my supportive posts? TOUGH! God knows we need more supportive FAITHFUL on this MB.
You may not agree with my posts, but you have no right to insult me by referring to them in the sarcastic manner in which you did.
I'm not a lawyer fancier--and that's a fact! They don't work for free, and neither did rich man Policy; he padded his pockets well while he was the 49ers. He didn't work for gratis. And he hot-footed it when he cast the 49ers in salary cap hell--from which it took the Corporation many years to get out of the predicament it was in and had to release a lot of our fine players because of the cap problem. That wasn't a small bad thing that he did to the 49ers and he was responsible for it.
OTOH, Carmen Policy was not the one who won the games and trophies. The players did that.
Before the era of the salary cap, Eddie was able to spend freely of his money in order to get the best players. Cost was not a factor. But once the salary cap went into effect, he tried to skirt the issue and make shady deals (in which he was caught) with some of our great players of the Super Bowl era.
In fact, our modern post-Super Bowl era began when we had to start letting go some of those players because of the effects of the salary cap--when we had to start paying penalties because of what he did.
You can cheer all you want for Policy, but I feel that the best policy is NO policy in our current era.
Hmm, you know the guy you put as your avatar (Steve Young), wouldn't have been a 49er if it weren't for Policy. I find your post ironic in that you celebrate what Policy has done for our organization but in turn you spit on him because you think you know what's best for the average 49er fan. So far we haven't had anyone to stick up for us. We had York and the SC city council trying to railroad over some of the things us fans hold dear. Mainly, tailgating. The Yorks want to take that away from us as fans. I dont know why. But why would you support that? Tailgating is our weekly ritual. If the York's take that away what are we left with? A parking structure and a crappy view of a theme park? What NFL fan cares about those things if they can't tailgate and enjoy the game experience the way the other 31 NFL teams' fans do?
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 01:31 AM
..... We had York and the SC city council trying to railroad over some of the things us fans hold dear. Mainly, tailgating. The Yorks want to take that away from us as fans. I dont know why. But why would you support that? Tailgating is our weekly ritual. If the York's take that away what are we left with? A parking structure and a crappy view of a theme park? What NFL fan cares about those things if they can't tailgate and enjoy the game experience the way the other 31 NFL teams' fans do?
Ok, your turn.
:link:
Their is absolutely nothing in the current stadium proposal which supports that claim.
dsr4900
10-09-2007, 02:31 AM
We finally got out of the mess that Carmen Policy started... And now you folks wanna bring him back??? Whats the deal???
ninerjeff
10-09-2007, 03:23 AM
personally i wouldn't mind if carmen bought the 49ers. we'd probably make the super bowl a lot sooner than now. plus we'd DEFINATELY play in a palace befitting a five time world champion, rather than a dump more suited for high schoolers. the only problem is that york won't sell.
Rattlehead
10-09-2007, 07:04 AM
I don't think most people care wether it is in San Francisco or Santa Clara, they just want a stadium that isn't a piece of garbage, and Santa Clara seems more likely to be able to get the job done.
Wrong answer. You obviously have no clue. Don't take it personally.
ethanh
10-09-2007, 07:46 AM
Uhmm, no. I will not school you. For starters, you won't listen. Secondly, this is a public forum. I'm not gonna give you a detailed history of Policy's past misdeeds.
And so, how can you possibly make this statement if you honestly don't know what he's really done?
I was what? Gee, imagine that.:bubble:
Ya see, I know you're a young guy, and passionate about your team. But was it really necessary to insult these great former players? I know what they do and have seen both of them doing it. They work hard contributing to the success of the team. Disrespecting them like that is totally uncalled for.
3rd Row are you a politician? Cause I feel like I am talking to a Republican telling me I am insulting the troops when I do not support the war. My statement about former players and coaches is: none of them have called one play or made one personal move in years. So they are not helping us win another championship. If you want to explain how an Alumni Coordinator is a huge importance to winning on Sunday that is fine, but I am talking about coaches, owners, scouts... I have respect for all former players and feel they should have more power in the franchise. I value their opinion more then yours. Would you value these players if their opinion was they did not support the SC site? No, you would start bashing them and tell us how they are shady with illegal things going on.
PS I am not that young 3rd Row, been to Super Bowls, saw Joe, Young, and Garcia. STH since the 90's
My only point is Carmen Policy is a respected face that will help push the Hunters Point site. Whether the respect is deserved or not is another matter. The court of public opinion says he will get headlines and people will listen.
Ok, your turn.
:link:
Their is absolutely nothing in the current stadium proposal which supports that claim.
Hmm, the proposed stadium deal calls for a large number of parking spaces to be in a parking garage. How can the fans tailgate while in a garage? They'd all die of smoke inhalation. Plus the parking garage brings traffic issues to mind. Can you imagine the mayham after a game? We're looking at Candlestick times 10.
Look, currently 100% of the parking for Candlestick is allowed to tailgate. If the Yorks wanted to quash all of the rumors about tailgating they would have put some number in the proposal like: 20,000 spaces will be available during 49er games, 80% of which will be tailgater friendly. Currently they're keeping mum on the subject.
So really there is no link but you've just got think this through. If the Yorks are not taking tailgating away why haven't they addressed this issue in the proposal?
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 08:36 AM
No link. Uh huh - just opinion. Yeah I gotcha.
Now, please read the proposal submitted to the city. It contains information about the number of parking spaces which any reasonable person will assume can be used for tailgating.
And off course the parking garage can't be used for tailgating. As The Wiz has pointed out before, there are a significant number of fans who do not Tailgate and only want a space close to the stadium. The parking garage is great for them.
Now, please read the proposal submitted to the city. It contains information about the number of parking spaces which any reasonable person will assume can be used for tailgating.
I don't like that word assume in there. Since when did assuming you will be taken care of ever work out for the little guy?
And off course the parking garage can't be used for tailgating. As The Wiz has pointed out before, there are a significant number of fans who do not Tailgate and only want a space close to the stadium. The parking garage is great for them.
What I'd like to know is what percentage of available parking will be used for tailgating? Will there be a price difference? And what is traffic going to be like with 5,000 or so fans trying to get out of the garage after a game. Parking garages don't tend to have more than two lanes at any given area. Sounds like a nightmare to me.
My point is that the proposal is quite vague from a fans point of view. Maybe you're right. Maybe the stadium will have plenty of tailgate parking. Maybe it will be the greatest stadium and parking ever built. The issue is that we have no idea what it will be like because the questions aren't being answered. They've left out a lot of information that I need to know in order to get behind the proposal. So in the meantime I won't support it.
ethanh
10-09-2007, 10:42 AM
No link. Uh huh - just opinion. Yeah I gotcha.
Now, please read the proposal submitted to the city. It contains information about the number of parking spaces which any reasonable person will assume can be used for tailgating.
And off course the parking garage can't be used for tailgating. As The Wiz has pointed out before, there are a significant number of fans who do not Tailgate and only want a space close to the stadium. The parking garage is great for them.
There will be some places for tailgating in SC but it may be on side streets, private corporate lots, lots with shuttle service, or in the small stadium lot next to the parking garage for the very wealthy. (My opinion from what I have gathered)
I also worry that the corporations they are counting on for nearby parking will not allow tailgating or parking for that matter. Coals get dumped, trash gets everywhere and spaces get thrashed. Even if they said no tailgating people would still be drinking and urinating all over their nice areas. Have you seen Candlestick after a game? It is a dumping ground, I admire any who clean it each week.
I feel I am taking crazy pills with all the defenders of SC. To me staying in SF it is the biggest no-brainer, but the world takes all kinds I guess.
krueger70
10-09-2007, 01:20 PM
Uhm, no.
Since he will apparently be a paid employee of the Lennar Corporation - I'm willing to bet the fruits of his labor are going some where else - and I can assure you - it won't end up in the pockets of San Francisco city residents .....:stirthepot:What does that have to do with getting a stadium vote passed in the city of San Francisco???? That will be his mission, that will be his goal!
In the pockets of San Francisco city? What does that mean?
krueger70
10-09-2007, 01:27 PM
Hmm, you know the guy you put as your avatar (Steve Young), wouldn't have been a 49er if it weren't for Policy. I find your post ironic in that you celebrate what Policy has done for our organization but in turn you spit on him because you think you know what's best for the average 49er fan. So far we haven't had anyone to stick up for us. We had York and the SC city council trying to railroad over some of the things us fans hold dear. Mainly, tailgating. The Yorks want to take that away from us as fans. I dont know why. But why would you support that? Tailgating is our weekly ritual. If the York's take that away what are we left with? A parking structure and a crappy view of a theme park? What NFL fan cares about those things if they can't tailgate and enjoy the game experience the way the other 31 NFL teams' fans do?Do you see what's going on here? We have a group of south bay residents who are getting there panties in a wad because this hiring gets in the way of the 49ers moving to Santa Clara. Now they hate Carmen you see!:hoppy:
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 05:09 PM
3rd Row are you a politician? Cause I feel like I am talking to a Republican telling me I am insulting the troops when I do not support the war. Uhm - OK. But let me make this perfectly clear, read my lips - I'm no politician.
My statement about former players and coaches is: none of them have called one play or made one personal move in years. So they are not helping us win another championship. Well, that's not really what you said before, but it's not worth debating. If you want to explain how an Alumni Coordinator is a huge importance to winning on Sunday that is fine, but I am talking about coaches, owners, scouts... I'm sure those who have benefitted from the services they provide feel differently.
I have respect for all former players and feel they should have more power in the franchise. I value their opinion more then yours. Would you value these players if their opinion was they did not support the SC site? As well you should. However, I have not yet heard of any fomer player who has publicly opposed the teams proposal for Santa Clara. :link: No, you would start bashing them and tell us how they are shady with illegal things going on. Well, only if they were actually involved in shady dealings and illegal activities. I try to avoid libelous statements and public slander. It can get very expensive.
PS I am not that young 3rd Row, been to Super Bowls, saw Joe, Young, and Garcia. STH since the 90's "Young" is a relative term. My memories extend back a little bit further, if that really matters.
My only point is Carmen Policy is a respected face that will help push the Hunters Point site. Whether the respect is deserved or not is another matter. The court of public opinion says he will get headlines and people will listen. That certainly explains why the Lennar corp is willing to pay him all that money.... Will people realize the difference between a paid spokesman and a former team executive whose primary concern is in the best interests of the team?
If he really starts to make life difficult for the 49ers, all it takes is one little press release from the Niners dissasociating themselves from Policy and clearly stating he was bought and paid for by Lennar and his credibility will evaporate.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 05:12 PM
What does that have to do with getting a stadium vote passed in the city of San Francisco???? That will be his mission, that will be his goal!
In the pockets of San Francisco city? What does that mean?
Don't you find it interesting that the Mayor and his croonies are happy to announce that Carmen will be their point man for the Hunter's Point project - but later come to find out that he is not working for the city at all, but is a paid employee of the developer who stands to profit from said project....
It makes me wonder, what other "point men" working for the city are bought and paid for by the special interests who stand to gain from their efforts? Is this what SF politics is all about? No wonder they end up with Supervisors like Norman Jew.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 05:14 PM
Do you see what's going on here? We have a group of south bay residents who are getting there panties in a wad because this hiring gets in the way of the 49ers moving to Santa Clara. Now they hate Carmen you see!:hoppy:
My opinions of Carmen Policy have not changed. They are the same today as they were yesterday.
Does the fact that he is willing to become a paid shill for the Lennar Corp cause me to think any less of him? No. Not possible.
No wonder they end up with Supervisors like Norman Jew.
I think you meant Ed Jew, and he's not a San Francisco resident (at least the courts will show he isn't). :wink:
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 09:02 PM
I think you meant Ed Jew, and he's not a San Francisco resident (at least the courts will show he isn't). :wink:
I'm sure you are correct. I really try to ignore the San Francisco city politics. I don't have the ante to play ....
AlexSmith5rings
10-09-2007, 09:09 PM
you guys really should stop wasting your time arguing with fromthe3rdrow or ninerjan, i stopped reading their nonsense long ago. they are so biased for this santa clara site and make no sense at all half the time. they even went out to say that candlestick park was in south san francisco :rolleyes2:
Fromthe3rdRow
10-09-2007, 09:14 PM
you guys really should stop wasting your time arguing with fromthe3rdrow or ninerjan, i stopped reading their nonsense long ago. they are so biased for this santa clara site and make no sense at all half the time. they even went out to say that candlestick park was in south san francisco :rolleyes2:
Well, to be absolutely accurate, Candlestick Point IS located in the south side of San Francisco. The confusion results from a neighboring city with the name "South San Francisco" which is indeed a separate municipality and not part of the city of San Francisco proper. But if this represents the strength of your arguments, you really don't have much to stand on. Why not focus on the real issues instead.
krueger70
10-10-2007, 06:31 AM
you guys really should stop wasting your time arguing with fromthe3rdrow or ninerjan, i stopped reading their nonsense long ago. they are so biased for this santa clara site and make no sense at all half the time. they even went out to say that candlestick park was in south san francisco :rolleyes2:You are correct. It's sad when so called 49ers fans put what's best for Santa Clara over what's best for the 49ers organization!
Fromthe3rdRow
10-10-2007, 09:07 AM
You are correct. It's sad when so called 49ers fans put what's best for Santa Clara over what's best for the 49ers organization!The sheer magnitude of your ignorance astounds me. Are you seriously referring to either NinerJan or myself as "so called" fans? Now that's a shocking development. I'm quite sure there are a few members of this board who feel otherwise.
I'm also astonished that you fail to realize that the Santa Clara site is currently the PREFERRED SITE of the San Francisco 49er organization. I am and always will be a supporter of the Niners and if the TEAM wants to move to Santa Clara - I'm all for it.
In my opinion, anyone with even a passing interest in the Niners, let alone a "fan" of the team, would have a better understanding of the issues. May I offer you an air hose sir?
ethanh
10-10-2007, 09:27 AM
I'm also astonished that you fail to realize that the Santa Clara site is currently the PREFERRED SITE of the San Francisco 49er organization. I am and always will be a supporter of the Niners and if the TEAM wants to move to Santa Clara - I'm all for it.
But what if they move to LA are you still all for it?
Is there anyway we can have the two teams play in both SF and LA? We can call them the 49Raiders and they can swap locations every year.
Roaring Back
10-10-2007, 12:13 PM
you guys really should stop wasting your time arguing with fromthe3rdrow or ninerjan, i stopped reading their nonsense long ago. they are so biased for this santa clara site and make no sense at all half the time. they even went out to say that candlestick park was in south san francisco :rolleyes2:
Well, to be absolutely accurate, Candlestick Point IS located in the south side of San Francisco. The confusion results from a neighboring city with the name "South San Francisco" which is indeed a separate municipality and not part of the city of San Francisco proper. But if this represents the strength of your arguments, you really don't have much to stand on. Why not focus on the real issues instead.
It's ok to admit you were wrong. There really was no confusion beyond you and NinerJan. We all make mistakes from time to time.
Roaring Back
10-10-2007, 12:28 PM
The sheer magnitude of your ignorance astounds me. Are you seriously referring to either NinerJan or myself as "so called" fans? Now that's a shocking development. I'm quite sure there are a few members of this board who feel otherwise.
I'm also astonished that you fail to realize that the Santa Clara site is currently the PREFERRED SITE of the San Francisco 49er organization. I am and always will be a supporter of the Niners and if the TEAM wants to move to Santa Clara - I'm all for it.
In my opinion, anyone with even a passing interest in the Niners, let alone a "fan" of the team, would have a better understanding of the issues. May I offer you an air hose sir?
I wouldn't take that "so called fans" remark personally. I didn't read that to mean you weren't 49er fans, but that you -and NinerJan- are behaving more like cheerleaders than fans. After reading so many of your posts on this subject, you are very clearly vested in the 49ers leaving the city stadium location and moving it to Santa Clara.
Further to the other poster's point, I agree that a move to the burbs is not in the best interests of the 49ers organization. San Francisco is a destination city, Santa Clara is not. The bonus of the San Francisco 49ers playing in San Francisco, is that you get to go (if you don't already live there) to San Francisco.
krueger70
10-10-2007, 01:27 PM
The sheer magnitude of your ignorance astounds me. Are you seriously referring to either NinerJan or myself as "so called" fans? Now that's a shocking development. I'm quite sure there are a few members of this board who feel otherwise.
I'm also astonished that you fail to realize that the Santa Clara site is currently the PREFERRED SITE of the San Francisco 49er organization. I am and always will be a supporter of the Niners and if the TEAM wants to move to Santa Clara - I'm all for it.
In my opinion, anyone with even a passing interest in the Niners, let alone a "fan" of the team, would have a better understanding of the issues. May I offer you an air hose sir?Oh, that's precious.
You seem to be an expert on this issue, therefore I thank you for setting me straight. I had NO idea that the York's were interested in the Santa Clara site???
What I do know is that the Santa Clara deal is a long way from reality, and other options are out there. And more important, need to be out there if and when it falls through! But appearently not to your liking. Right?
Are you a southbay resident by chance?
I used the term "So Called" Niner fans because you and NinerJan are coming off like "Santa Clara" cheerleaders, and if the 49ers organization can find a way to build a stadium in San Francisco, it appears that you would both be devastated! Bring on the air hose, I enjoyed that term "Airhead" back in the 80's!
krueger70
10-10-2007, 02:09 PM
I wouldn't take that "so called fans" remark personally. I didn't read that to mean you weren't 49er fans, but that you -and NinerJan- are behaving more like cheerleaders than fans. After reading so many of your posts on this subject, you are very clearly vested in the 49ers leaving the city stadium location and moving it to Santa Clara.
Further to the other poster's point, I agree that a move to the burbs is not in the best interests of the 49ers organization. San Francisco is a destination city, Santa Clara is not. The bonus of the San Francisco 49ers playing in San Francisco, is that you get to go (if you don't already live there) to San Francisco.So right!
San Francisco has, and always will be one of this country's top 5 destination cities.
Not sure where Santa Clara ranks?
Nevyn
10-10-2007, 02:33 PM
Oh, that's precious.
You seem to be an expert on this issue, therefore I thank you for setting me straight. I had NO idea that the York's were interested in the Santa Clara site???
What I do know is that the Santa Clara deal is a long way from reality, and other options are out there. And more important, need to be out there if and when it falls through! But appearently not to your liking. Right?
Are you a southbay resident by chance?
I used the term "So Called" Niner fans because you and NinerJan are coming off like "Santa Clara" cheerleaders, and if the 49ers organization can find a way to build a stadium in San Francisco, it appears that you would both be devastated! Bring on the air hose, I enjoyed that term "Airhead" back in the 80's!
And you don't seem completely biased the other way?
As an outsider, it seems to me that Jan and Fromthe3rdRow are supporting the SC proposal against those in the area who are trying to oppose it or suggest that it is a bad deal for the city.
I don't believe from anything I've read that either is just trying to shorten their commute, or would be opposed to a viable stadium plan within San Francisco.
AlexSmith5rings
10-10-2007, 02:52 PM
I don't believe from anything I've read that either is just trying to shorten their commute, or would be opposed to a viable stadium plan within San Francisco.
have you read niner jans posts? she trashes san francisco every time she gets the opportunity to do so.
Local49ersFan
10-10-2007, 02:52 PM
I am neutral on this subject because it's equal distance to me anyway. But I have a feeling that sooner or later, once the residents of SC realize that their City is actually going to own the stadium and turn around to lease it to the 49ers. They will find the price tab too steep and vote against it. Just like the people in San Francisco.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-10-2007, 07:27 PM
I wouldn't take that "so called fans" remark personally. I didn't read that to mean you weren't 49er fans, but that you -and NinerJan- are behaving more like cheerleaders than fans. After reading so many of your posts on this subject, you are very clearly vested in the 49ers leaving the city stadium location and moving it to Santa Clara.
Further to the other poster's point, I agree that a move to the burbs is not in the best interests of the 49ers organization. San Francisco is a destination city, Santa Clara is not. The bonus of the San Francisco 49ers playing in San Francisco, is that you get to go (if you don't already live there) to San Francisco.No, the point, in case you missed it, is that the Niners are invested in moving to Santa Clara. It is currently their PREFERRED SITE over all others. But someone was suggesting I was placing my interests ahead of the team's. Uh - kinda hard to do when they are one and the same. Thus, my offer of the air hose.
And while I respect the opinion of those who believe San Francisco is a better location for a stadium - simply let me make note that the Niners are in the best position to determine what is best for the team and the organization. At present, that means they are trying to get a stadium built in Santa Clara.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-10-2007, 07:29 PM
But what if they move to LA are you still all for it?
Is there anyway we can have the two teams play in both SF and LA? We can call them the 49Raiders and they can swap locations every year.
If the team decides that is best - than so be it.
But I must admit - it will seriously limit my opportunities to tailgate....
Fromthe3rdRow
10-10-2007, 07:33 PM
And you don't seem completely biased the other way?
As an outsider, it seems to me that Jan and Fromthe3rdRow are supporting the SC proposal against those in the area who are trying to oppose it or suggest that it is a bad deal for the city.
I don't believe from anything I've read that either is just trying to shorten their commute, or would be opposed to a viable stadium plan within San Francisco.Ahh. Thank you. You are correct sir.
It's nice to see someone actually exercising their reading comprehension skills one in a while. We know everyone had the capacity - it just seems like some people don't want to take the time.
Thanks for posting.
ethanh
10-10-2007, 07:42 PM
No, the point, in case you missed it, is that the Niners are invested in moving to Santa Clara. It is currently their PREFERRED SITE over all others. But someone was suggesting I was placing my interests ahead of the team's. Uh - kinda hard to do when they are one and the same. Thus, my offer of the air hose.
And while I respect the opinion of those who believe San Francisco is a better location for a stadium - simply let me make note that the Niners are in the best position to determine what is best for the team and the organization. At present, that means they are trying to get a stadium built in Santa Clara.
Great post logical.
However, York and the 49ers seem to be off their rocker and need help from those that see the light. Moving to SC will be a disaster for the franchise! I really feel they got duped by that SC guy that convinced York to drop the SF plan.
I wish I had complete faith like you in the team knowing what is best.
I did in Nolan, although right now even that is being tested.
Fromthe3rdRow
10-10-2007, 07:54 PM
Great post logical.
However, York and the 49ers seem to be off their rocker and need help from those that see the light. Moving to SC will be a disaster for the franchise! I really feel they got duped by that SC guy that convinced York to drop the SF plan.
I wish I had complete faith like you in the team knowing what is best.
I did in Nolan, although right now even that is being tested.Well, to be honest, I doubt they need my faith at this point. In the end, the team and the organization will make a business decision. It will do what is best for the team. I do have faith that part of that decision will include how it will impact the fans. After all - we represent a significant source of revenue.......
As for an "SC guy" who convinced York to drop the SF plan - do tell. I've never heard reference to that. I seem to recall SF simply pissed of the Yorks by dragging their feet, refusing to do their fair share, demanding the new stadium meet their Olympian dreams and refusing to return phone calls. I'm pretty sure SF shot themselves in the foot without anyone's help whatsoever......
TheWiz
10-10-2007, 08:35 PM
Well, to be honest, I doubt they need my faith at this point. In the end, the team and the organization will make a business decision. It will do what is best for the team. I do have faith that part of that decision will include how it will impact the fans. After all - we represent a significant source of revenue.......
As for an "SC guy" who convinced York to drop the SF plan - do tell. I've never heard reference to that. I seem to recall SF simply pissed of the Yorks by dragging their feet, refusing to do their fair share, demanding the new stadium meet their Olympian dreams and refusing to return phone calls. I'm pretty sure SF shot themselves in the foot without anyone's help whatsoever......
Not to forget that the team also openly said the Santa Clara site was being investigated as a secondary option months before they dropped the San Francisco plan Lennar came up with.
ethanh
10-10-2007, 08:42 PM
The SC guy was either someone in the mayors office or on the board who courted the 49ers with the idea of moving there. I can't remember his name and am not sure how influential he was but he got some press about meeting with Jed and the team about moving.
I can't believe we will probably have another whole year of this before we know where they will build. Back and forth with momentum we go.
Nevyn
10-10-2007, 08:55 PM
have you read niner jans posts? she trashes san francisco every time she gets the opportunity to do so.
I must have missed some. Feel free to provide a quote and/or a link to any posts in which she does that.
Most of what I've seen her say is about her going to Santa Clara city council meetings and speaking up for the proposal. If she trashed the city of San Francisco, I missed it.
krueger70
10-11-2007, 06:46 AM
And you don't seem completely biased the other way?
As an outsider, it seems to me that Jan and Fromthe3rdRow are supporting the SC proposal against those in the area who are trying to oppose it or suggest that it is a bad deal for the city.
I don't believe from anything I've read that either is just trying to shorten their commute, or would be opposed to a viable stadium plan within San Francisco.You bet I am bias!
I would prefer for the San Francisco 49ers to remain in San Francisco. I'm not lobbying for them to move to San Francisco, I would like to see them remain in San Francisco.
If the city of San Francisco proves it can't build a new stadium (not from something that happened 10 years ago), then by all means they should look to relocate the team. The last thing I want to see is "The Bay Area 49ers of Santa Clara".
Nevyn
10-11-2007, 07:17 AM
You bet I am bias!
I would prefer for the San Francisco 49ers to remain in San Francisco. I'm not lobbying for them to move to San Francisco, I would like to see them remain in San Francisco.
If the city of San Francisco proves it can't build a new stadium (not from something that happened 10 years ago), then by all means they should look to relocate the team. The last thing I want to see is "The Bay Area 49ers of Santa Clara".
Well then you'll be happy to know that several nfl teams do not play in the municipalities they are named for, yet do not change their names.
How does one "prove" that you can't build a stadium?
I could case less where they build the stadium, as long as it gives the fans an aesthetically pleasing gameday experience. That was my main gripe with Santa Clara. The stadium design looked like it was made in the 1970s, and the parking situation was going to be atrocious. Let's hope someone starts thinking of the fans over there.
Nevyn
10-11-2007, 10:34 AM
I could case less where they build the stadium, as long as it gives the fans an aesthetically pleasing gameday experience. That was my main gripe with Santa Clara. The stadium design looked like it was made in the 1970s, and the parking situation was going to be atrocious. Let's hope someone starts thinking of the fans over there.
The stadium design wasn't unique to Santa Clara as I understand. Same basic design as the SF proposals.
And complaining about concept drawings looking boring seems silly to me. 'Flashy' gets old fast. If the seats are comfortable, the stadium is noisy, and the views are good (and access well designed) then its a well designed stadium.
krueger70
10-11-2007, 12:34 PM
Well then you'll be happy to know that several nfl teams do not play in the municipalities they are named for, yet do not change their names.
How does one "prove" that you can't build a stadium?The city of San Francisco has already made it known that they will challenge the 49ers organization on keeping the city name if they do relocate.
The Oakland A's originally stated they wouldn't make any name changes once they leave the coliseum, but now Fremont is going to get what they want, and we will soon know them as - The Bay Area Athletics of Fremont.
That's emberassing!
Nevyn
10-11-2007, 12:46 PM
The city of San Francisco has already made it known that they will challenge the 49ers organization on keeping the city name if they do relocate.
They have threatened that. And will fail miserably at making it happen. This is political posturing on their part. Usually in the case of these dumb name changes, it is the destination municipality that messes things up. And I haven't heard a peep from SC demanding to have Santa Clara appear in the team name.
ethanh
10-11-2007, 01:01 PM
Well then you'll be happy to know that several nfl teams do not play in the municipalities they are named for, yet do not change their names.
How does one "prove" that you can't build a stadium?
This argument is so lame. No team that plays outside their city plays very far from the city. 50 miles is way more then any other team.
The city of San Francisco has already made it known that they will challenge the 49ers organization on keeping the city name if they do relocate.
The Oakland A's originally stated they wouldn't make any name changes once they leave the coliseum, but now Fremont is going to get what they want, and we will soon know them as - The Bay Area Athletics of Fremont.
That's emberassing!
No one knows what kind of fight SF and possibly the senator and House Speaker will put up if the team moves. It will kill a lot of casual STH fans in SF, the North Bay, and beyond no matter what. I guess new fans will be added moving near San Jose, but they have chosen a lesser city to identify with in all but name.
I guess Santa Clara reps say they want nothing to do with the team name but that could change, but unlikely.
'Flashy' gets old fast. If the seats are comfortable, the stadium is noisy, and the views are good (and access well designed) then its a well designed stadium.
I agree with this sentiment whole heartedly. I give super bonus points if they can build a stadium that is loud like Seattle's. You would think they'd spend some extra money and get some group who studies sound waves and put some ideas into the architecture of the stadium. I wonder if it's ever been done (you'd think every owner would do it).
Regarding flashy, I never said it had to be flashy but look at other recent open air stadiums built and tell me if they've gotten old yet. It seems like that design is rather bland if you compare it to open air stadiums built in the past 10 years.
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