Every other team

[lastrebelzzz]

Simply just builds a **** stadium and our team spends years just talking about building one. This is becoming as embarrassing as our offense, pick a site and break ground then work around the clock since all the talking has put the stadium far behind schedule.If nothing else do it for the memory of Bill Walsh, his legacy deserves nothing but the finest stadium of the NFL.

[Coldrain85]

I wish it was that easy. I also think that the 49ers will eventually have the finest stadium in the NFL, and it may even have a large amusement park on site. We just have to be patient, and hope that ground gets broken somewhere by 2010. I don't really care where they put it, as long as it's somewhere in the greater Bay Area, and it's ready for occupation by 2012 like they have said.

[Nevyn]

Simply just builds a **** stadium and our team spends years just talking about building one. This is becoming as embarrassing as our offense, pick a site and break ground then work around the clock since all the talking has put the stadium far behind schedule.If nothing else do it for the memory of Bill Walsh, his legacy deserves nothing but the finest stadium of the NFL.

Really?

Cos the New York Jets have been trying to get a stadium deal in New York for about 15 years with no success and lasi I heard were going to have to partner with the Giants again in Jersey eventually. This is a team that currently plays home games in Giants stadium and can't get something done.

It also seems to me the Chargers and Vikings are having a lot of trouble with this, and the Saints were before Katrina. Several other teams including the Eagles spent YEARS in dilipadated older stadiums before getting new ones. How long were the cardinals playing in the desert in a stadium with no shade for its metal benches before they got a stadium deal.

Stadium deals take time. And the more expensive real estate is, and the less cooperative local government is, the longer it takes to get done. The reason you think everyone else just shuts up and builds is that you weren't privy to the years of haggling that proceeded their groundbreaking.

[Peter Proud]

Really?

Cos the New York Jets have been trying to get a stadium deal in New York for about 15 years with no success and lasi I heard were going to have to partner with the Giants again in Jersey eventually. This is a team that currently plays home games in Giants stadium and can't get something done.

It also seems to me the Chargers and Vikings are having a lot of trouble with this, and the Saints were before Katrina. Several other teams including the Eagles spent YEARS in dilipadated older stadiums before getting new ones. How long were the cardinals playing in the desert in a stadium with no shade for its metal benches before they got a stadium deal.

Stadium deals take time. And the more expensive real estate is, and the less cooperative local government is, the longer it takes to get done. The reason you think everyone else just shuts up and builds is that you weren't privy to the years of haggling that proceeded their groundbreaking.

Excellent answer!!!:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

[Coldrain85]

Really?

Cos the New York Jets have been trying to get a stadium deal in New York for about 15 years with no success and lasi I heard were going to have to partner with the Giants again in Jersey eventually. This is a team that currently plays home games in Giants stadium and can't get something done.

It also seems to me the Chargers and Vikings are having a lot of trouble with this, and the Saints were before Katrina. Several other teams including the Eagles spent YEARS in dilipadated older stadiums before getting new ones. How long were the cardinals playing in the desert in a stadium with no shade for its metal benches before they got a stadium deal.

You're totally right about the Eagles. It took them many years to get out of that rat infested, urine soaked stadium. It also literally had 1/4" of rug on top of cement. Players hated getting tackled on that turf because it hurt like hell every time. Some of those teams though, like the Chargers, don't have a good argument for needing a new stadium. Qualcomm is in much better condition than Candlestick, for instance. There's nothing wrong with that stadium right now. Maybe 10 years from now they will have a better argument for needing a new stadium. The Jets are screwed, but NYC has a unique problem when it comes to available land.

I still think that the Saints are going to move to LA at some point. There's no way that any more expansion teams are going to come about, and 32 is a nice number for all kinds of reasons. They would have to go to 36 teams, or else the scheduling would be impossible.

[TheWiz]

Simply just builds a **** stadium and our team spends years just talking about building one. This is becoming as embarrassing as our offense, pick a site and break ground then work around the clock since all the talking has put the stadium far behind schedule.If nothing else do it for the memory of Bill Walsh, his legacy deserves nothing but the finest stadium of the NFL.

The belief that no other team goes on for so long about a new stadium is false. First of all, how much do you think Patriots or Miami or perhaps Kansas City fans know about our situation? Most are clueless, right? They don't know who Cedar Fair is or about Carmen Policy or state senators sponsoring resolutions or anything of that nature. Just like you never notice the years and months of politicial banter many other teams go through to get a deal done on their end.

But you're also saying it's just a matter of will power. Other teams also have different conditions!

- San Francisco = reduced in land mass because it's on a peninsula so it doesn't stretch in every direction. It's cramped and our best spot being offered is still on the water.
- California = One of the world's largest economies with massive debt and a social stigma where people refuse to help finance a stadium.
- The Team = attached to a city its entire existance.

Try comparing us to the Patriots! They're not attached to any city, they're a regional team. They're in the really rich Northeast and had a brand new stadium built entirely by the state of MA with local taxes and minimal owner cash. How about Dallas. They moved cities, no one cried. They got a huge stadium built on cheap on open Texas land at Texas prices. Out there a home costs in the 100k range for many low income families. Out in CA, even the average family cannot financially afford a simple home.

Not to mention as other posters have noted, other teams have problems too!

I don't see what the banter is about anyhow. The last 'deal' was back in '98 under an owner kicked out for illegal activities and under a company so financially unstable it dissolved only a few years later. The team had an official 'team president' for a few years who was charged with getting a political climate to help the team get a new deal. But under York's new face and immediate unpopularity in the region it would never work.

It wasn't until about 18 months ago we hired Lennar and specialists to design and find a stadium deal. Their first offer at Candlestick was decided to be terrible and we instead moved to the Santa Clara site as a first option. Only THEN did the mayors office get involved. So, sorry to tell, but really it hasn't been a long time.

Really?

Cos the New York Jets have been trying to get a stadium deal in New York for about 15 years with no success and lasi I heard were going to have to partner with the Giants again in Jersey eventually. This is a team that currently plays home games in Giants stadium and can't get something done.

It also seems to me the Chargers and Vikings are having a lot of trouble with this, and the Saints were before Katrina. Several other teams including the Eagles spent YEARS in dilipadated older stadiums before getting new ones. How long were the cardinals playing in the desert in a stadium with no shade for its metal benches before they got a stadium deal.

Stadium deals take time. And the more expensive real estate is, and the less cooperative local government is, the longer it takes to get done. The reason you think everyone else just shuts up and builds is that you weren't privy to the years of haggling that proceeded their groundbreaking.

Exactly. You're really on the ball Nevyn. You post well thought-out and clear posts and you're getting a reputation for it.

You're totally right about the Eagles. It took them many years to get out of that rat infested, urine soaked stadium. It also literally had 1/4" of rug on top of cement. Players hated getting tackled on that turf because it hurt like hell every time. Some of those teams though, like the Chargers, don't have a good argument for needing a new stadium. Qualcomm is in much better condition than Candlestick, for instance. There's nothing wrong with that stadium right now. Maybe 10 years from now they will have a better argument for needing a new stadium. The Jets are screwed, but NYC has a unique problem when it comes to available land.

I still think that the Saints are going to move to LA at some point. There's no way that any more expansion teams are going to come about, and 32 is a nice number for all kinds of reasons. They would have to go to 36 teams, or else the scheduling would be impossible.

There are other solutions. Especially if you slash the preseason by one game. You start the season a week earlier in the year so it falls over labor day weekend each year. Then you keep 16 games by doubling the bye weeks. The season goes to 18 weeks with 2 rounds of byes, the first in weeks 4-8 and then in weeks 12-16. Why does this matter? It gives enough flexibility to fit more teams in under the current model. But I've yet to see how this plan actually will help the logistics of only a few teams.

I may mess this up but I'm pretty sure we currently play 6 divisional games, 4 games against a fixed NFC division that will rotate the next year, 4 games against a fixed AFC division that will rotate the next year, and 2 games against 2 other NFC clubs based on records from the previous season. That's 512 matchups per year, 256 games. One expansion team makes it 272, two makes it 288. In short, a new method needs to be developed. Especially one where each team plays only 6 divisional games each year despite size of division, 4 or 5 teams.

[Coldrain85]

It's all about even numbers. 33-35 teams would be impossible to schedule. None of those numbers have even factors except 34 itself which does no good. I know how it sounds, but it's a big deal when it comes to deciding playoff teams. Even 36 would have difficulties, but it would be workable with 4 divisions, each with 9 teams. I don't see the league expanding at all though, much less by 4 teams. I don't think there are enough cities in the US that are big enough to support more expansion teams. LA is the only city that has a glaring need, and it will be getting a team soon enough, and a new stadium to boot. The Saints seem like the most vulnerable team right now. Katrina has kept them there for the mean time, but I bet they will be gone in a few years. Wouldn't it be hilarious though if the Jets packed up and moved to LA. At least the Saints HAVE a stadium. The Jets are in a pretty bad spot. They have it way worse than the 49ers. At least we have 2 viable options, and maybe even more.

[ninerjeff]

Simply just builds a **** stadium and our team spends years just talking about building one. This is becoming as embarrassing as our offense, pick a site and break ground then work around the clock since all the talking has put the stadium far behind schedule.If nothing else do it for the memory of Bill Walsh, his legacy deserves nothing but the finest stadium of the NFL.

i like your idea, but unfortunately most of these lunatic tree huggers and nimby's will kick and scream for majority vote. i wish york could build it with his own money.

[TheWiz]

It's all about even numbers. 33-35 teams would be impossible to schedule. None of those numbers have even factors except 34 itself which does no good. I know how it sounds, but it's a big deal when it comes to deciding playoff teams. Even 36 would have difficulties, but it would be workable with 4 divisions, each with 9 teams. I don't see the league expanding at all though, much less by 4 teams. I don't think there are enough cities in the US that are big enough to support more expansion teams. LA is the only city that has a glaring need, and it will be getting a team soon enough, and a new stadium to boot. The Saints seem like the most vulnerable team right now. Katrina has kept them there for the mean time, but I bet they will be gone in a few years. Wouldn't it be hilarious though if the Jets packed up and moved to LA. At least the Saints HAVE a stadium. The Jets are in a pretty bad spot. They have it way worse than the 49ers. At least we have 2 viable options, and maybe even more.

Not sure if you're up on this but the Jets and Giants are building a massive joint stadium project on part of the land the Meadowlands currently occupies, I believe. They already got a 300M g3 loan last year from the league and more recently secured their financing and moved onto refining the building plans compared to their budget. So, in a couple of years both the Giants and Jets will have a huge stadium together.

[1st And 10]

Not sure if you're up on this but the Jets and Giants are building a massive joint stadium project on part of the land the Meadowlands currently occupies, I believe. They already got a 300M g3 loan last year from the league and more recently secured their financing and moved onto refining the building plans compared to their budget. So, in a couple of years both the Giants and Jets will have a huge stadium together.

what does a huge stadium mean??? Like two seperate fields or what??

[Eng74]

It could be the L.A. Jaguars. In the past Jacksonville has supported the team but the last few years it is not there. They also want a new stadium.

[SC9erFan]

what does a huge stadium mean??? Like two seperate fields or what??

Nope, but interestingly enough, tne new stadium will be built next to Giants Stadium and the old stadium will remain as well. Not sure about why they're doing that.

[TheWiz]

It could be the L.A. Jaguars. In the past Jacksonville has supported the team but the last few years it is not there. They also want a new stadium.

Because all the Jaguars got as a starting stadium was a lightly renovated old stadium to start with. Jacksonville never built a brand new stadium, they converted one. Now approaching 15 years past, it's not quite as elegant.

I doubt Jacksonville would move though. Only in the NBA do expansion teams fold and move cities in such short notice. Jacksonville draws a lot of support in its region and especially from western GA and AL which is pretty good grass roots football country. If they moved it would probably be west into AL to separate more geographically from Tampa and Atlanta.

Nope, but interestingly enough, tne new stadium will be built next to Giants Stadium and the old stadium will remain as well. Not sure about why they're doing that.

Well, last time I checked, the plan did actually call for separate locker rooms for both clubs and team offices as well. So players don't need to empty lockers and coaches don't need to empty offices after home games. This is in addition to visiting team facilities.

The meadowlands itself is a whole complex unless they've taken down the racetrack. There's also a concert hall on the property but it's right off of the Jersey Highway. Most of the region is pretty barren because, as meadowlands suggests, its very marshy and can't be built upon. The complex though has a large, far reaching parking lot serving all 3 venues.

Why tear down the old stadium? First of all, it's actually cheaper to let it fall apart than it is to tear it down. But the stadium itself is only about 30 years old, it's even in better shape than Candlestick! Even after light maintenance it can easily hold a couple tens of thousands of fans for any event the stadium authority wants. NJ State high school football championships, a national NCAA womens field hockey tournament game, concerts, open air cinema with massive screens, Etc. Just because it's not a great NFL venue doesn't mean it can't continue to draw some pretty decent revenue. I'm even willing to bet that ongoing usage of the old stadium is going to at least help fund the maintenance or construction of the new stadium.

[Khold]

Because all the Jaguars got as a starting stadium was a lightly renovated old stadium to start with. Jacksonville never built a brand new stadium, they converted one. Now approaching 15 years past, it's not quite as elegant.

I doubt Jacksonville would move though. Only in the NBA do expansion teams fold and move cities in such short notice. Jacksonville draws a lot of support in its region and especially from western GA and AL which is pretty good grass roots football country. If they moved it would probably be west into AL to separate more geographically from Tampa and Atlanta.


I don't post in here much seeing as I'm from Alabama and have never been able to get to the old stadium let alone see a new one, but since AL and my area was mentioned I thought I would say what I know about the area for those on the West Coast. Sorry if this might be a little off topic.

First, I can see the possibility of the Jaguars moving if things don't turn around. I believe it was last year or maybe the last 2 years, they have had to block off entire sections of seats just so they wouldn't be counted as seats and hence lowering there capacity and making it easy for them to have sellouts and meet the whatever minimum the NFL has on ticket sells for a game to not be blacked out on TV. Even with this done, the team has at least once had to buy large junks of tickets to prevent a blackout or at least ask for an extension from the NFL to sell more tickets before the Thursday deadline of having sold enough tickets and I think they have still had one TV blackout even with everything the team has been trying. They are just having really hard time right now and unless they make the playoffs or something happens, it is just looking down hill for the Jaguars.

Second, Alabama has what I would call an interesting way with football. Football is BIG in this state, but that doesn't have much to do with the NFL. There is a team no more then 2 hours away from almost anywhere in the state with the Titans to the north, Atlanta to the East, and the Saints down south. With teams in those cities already, moving a NFL team to any of the larger cities in the state would put them within less then 2 hours driving time from another, with most of the larger cities in the state not being much bigger then 200,000 in population, which doesn't make much sense, at least to me. Even with 3 NFL teams in the area the biggest football in the state is College by a longshot. There is nothing bigger here then Auburn and Unversity of Alabama. Every year they play each other in November and that Saturday is almost a State Holiday. So while there is a lot of football fans in Alabama, most are college fans and even high school fans before being a fan of any NFL team. I am never counting on this state ever getting an NFL team, it was a stuggle just to get a minor league baseball team here in Montgomery. For something like 20 years Montgomery, AL was the largest city in the US, again by a large margin, without any type of minor league team in it.

[Coldrain85]

I wasn't aware of the Jets/Giants project. But, I never thought the Jets were a serious contender to move to LA anyway.

The Cardinals used to be on the short list of teams that could potentially leave for another city. When construction on their new stadium began it ensured that they would be staying put, and the 3,000 die hard AZ fans were quite happy I'm sure. The team will continue to suck though, and the new STH's they lured with the new stadium will start to jump ship soon enough. AZ fans have always been fair weather fans, and that stadium will be back to 60% capacity before long. Glaser is a dumbass. Always has been. Moving that team to LA would have been a better financial move for him, but whatever, it's the Cardinals and nobody cares.

The Saints are are most vulnerable team. Nobody wants to bring up the issue of them moving right now at the risk of being unpopular, but the redevelopment of NO is not coming along as expected. People are not lining up to invest in the area, and people are not exactly lining up to return. Lots of people who fled the area when Katrina hit have settled elsewhere and are not in a hurry to go back, mostly because there is nothing to go back to. The French Quarter and the NO Jazz Festival will always be there, but I think the Saints are on their way to LA as soon as the dust settles and Katrina is not as fresh in people's minds.

The 49ers' owners seem to be committed to keeping the team in the greater Bay Area. Still, we won't be absolutely sure of that until ground is broken on a new stadium. This deal is important for more reasons than just being able to say we have a new stadium. It has everything to do with keeping the team in the Bay Area, or not.

[SC9erFan]

Well, last time I checked, the plan did actually call for separate locker rooms for both clubs and team offices as well. So players don't need to empty lockers and coaches don't need to empty offices after home games. This is in addition to visiting team facilities.

The meadowlands itself is a whole complex unless they've taken down the racetrack. There's also a concert hall on the property but it's right off of the Jersey Highway. Most of the region is pretty barren because, as meadowlands suggests, its very marshy and can't be built upon. The complex though has a large, far reaching parking lot serving all 3 venues.

Why tear down the old stadium? First of all, it's actually cheaper to let it fall apart than it is to tear it down. But the stadium itself is only about 30 years old, it's even in better shape than Candlestick! Even after light maintenance it can easily hold a couple tens of thousands of fans for any event the stadium authority wants. NJ State high school football championships, a national NCAA womens field hockey tournament game, concerts, open air cinema with massive screens, Etc. Just because it's not a great NFL venue doesn't mean it can't continue to draw some pretty decent revenue. I'm even willing to bet that ongoing usage of the old stadium is going to at least help fund the maintenance or construction of the new stadium.

Interesting. Actually, Giants Stadium is owned by the Giants themselves and not by the NJ sports authority - the new stadium will be owned by the state and run through a 50/50 lease by the Giants and the Jets, so I'm assuming that any potential profit that the old stadium generated would go to the Giants themselves and not toward new stadium maintainence.

I see the point of how the old stadium might still prove useful, but honestly, there are a plethora of newer and better venues throughout NJ (not to mention the tri-state area) and, despite being better than Candlestick, the Stadium itself runs up fairly high maintainence costs and faces the problem of terrible weather conditions pretty much throughout the year (which has caused problems for multi-purpose use for events like concerts in the past). IIRC, the state actually wants to demolish the old stadium, so I'd assume the Giants FO made the decision to keep it standing.

The meadowlands is actually not hard land to develop. The vast majority of the area is paved save a region to the east of the Meadowlands complex heading toward the river along the turnpike - everything else surrounding it is a heavily developed industrial/commercial zone. The complex itself is huge as it is, and i'd guess that about 70% is a parking lot - aside of course from the enormous equestrian race track (which Nascar tried for years to buy and convert into a super-speedway due to its size and location) and the fairly small Continental Arena (which is still home to the Devils and Nets, but will likely be scaled down and converted into a concert/convention venue for about 4-5000 after both teams move out).

[ninerjeff]

la jaguars? that rings a bell don't it? the fans could all come to the stadium in thier pimped out jags:biggrin:

[ninersfan68]

the jets/giants have been building for like a year

[TheWiz]

the jets/giants have been building for like a year

No, no they haven't. If you include leveling and opening a space to build and clearing room for a new stadium, perhaps. But they didn't have a financing deal secured until this spring and even then the designs for the stadium naturally went back to the drawing board to some degree.

la jaguars? that rings a bell don't it? the fans could all come to the stadium in thier pimped out jags:biggrin:

I can't disagree, LA Jaguars in not that un-smooth of a team name.

Interesting. Actually, Giants Stadium is owned by the Giants themselves and not by the NJ sports authority - the new stadium will be owned by the state and run through a 50/50 lease by the Giants and the Jets, so I'm assuming that any potential profit that the old stadium generated would go to the Giants themselves and not toward new stadium maintainence.

I see the point of how the old stadium might still prove useful, but honestly, there are a plethora of newer and better venues throughout NJ (not to mention the tri-state area) and, despite being better than Candlestick, the Stadium itself runs up fairly high maintainence costs and faces the problem of terrible weather conditions pretty much throughout the year (which has caused problems for multi-purpose use for events like concerts in the past). IIRC, the state actually wants to demolish the old stadium, so I'd assume the Giants FO made the decision to keep it standing.

The meadowlands is actually not hard land to develop. The vast majority of the area is paved save a region to the east of the Meadowlands complex heading toward the river along the turnpike - everything else surrounding it is a heavily developed industrial/commercial zone. The complex itself is huge as it is, and i'd guess that about 70% is a parking lot - aside of course from the enormous equestrian race track (which Nascar tried for years to buy and convert into a super-speedway due to its size and location) and the fairly small Continental Arena (which is still home to the Devils and Nets, but will likely be scaled down and converted into a concert/convention venue for about 4-5000 after both teams move out).

This...I did not know.

First of all, I do agree that NJ itself is not short of venues and that a place like the Meadowland's stadium likely draws a very high maintenance cost.

I do dare to disagree on a few things though. First of all is that the Meadowland cannot draw a decent value in terms of alternative entertainment. While it may not be a huge or new stadium for that matter, it's proximity to NYC alone makes it worth something. There is no end of musical concerts, outdoor 'conventions', public displays, and alternative sporting events during the summer in the northeast that want a venue. All of the biggest acts want to play NYC and despite all of the theatres and concert halls thay may be booked. Even given Atlantic City and Philadelphia, it's a solid north NJ venue. One which won't require high class grass or snow removal and half the seats can be removed and still make it a decent venue for the outdoors.

I don't post in here much seeing as I'm from Alabama and have never been able to get to the old stadium let alone see a new one, but since AL and my area was mentioned I thought I would say what I know about the area for those on the West Coast. Sorry if this might be a little off topic.

First, I can see the possibility of the Jaguars moving if things don't turn around. I believe it was last year or maybe the last 2 years, they have had to block off entire sections of seats just so they wouldn't be counted as seats and hence lowering there capacity and making it easy for them to have sellouts and meet the whatever minimum the NFL has on ticket sells for a game to not be blacked out on TV. Even with this done, the team has at least once had to buy large junks of tickets to prevent a blackout or at least ask for an extension from the NFL to sell more tickets before the Thursday deadline of having sold enough tickets and I think they have still had one TV blackout even with everything the team has been trying. They are just having really hard time right now and unless they make the playoffs or something happens, it is just looking down hill for the Jaguars.

Second, Alabama has what I would call an interesting way with football. Football is BIG in this state, but that doesn't have much to do with the NFL. There is a team no more then 2 hours away from almost anywhere in the state with the Titans to the north, Atlanta to the East, and the Saints down south. With teams in those cities already, moving a NFL team to any of the larger cities in the state would put them within less then 2 hours driving time from another, with most of the larger cities in the state not being much bigger then 200,000 in population, which doesn't make much sense, at least to me. Even with 3 NFL teams in the area the biggest football in the state is College by a longshot. There is nothing bigger here then Auburn and Unversity of Alabama. Every year they play each other in November and that Saturday is almost a State Holiday. So while there is a lot of football fans in Alabama, most are college fans and even high school fans before being a fan of any NFL team. I am never counting on this state ever getting an NFL team, it was a stuggle just to get a minor league baseball team here in Montgomery. For something like 20 years Montgomery, AL was the largest city in the US, again by a large margin, without any type of minor league team in it.

I agree on the issue of JAX ticket sales and popularity, I see the same from afar.

However, I disagree about a move west. First of all, AL loves football and does cling heavily to not only its HS teams but Collegiate rivalries. I am really going on a limb here but I find it hard to believe ATL is conveniently close to anyone but the NE part of AL. I think that a team could easily survive there as well as AZ has in its location. Its may have TX teams east and teams to its W and N, but it lived only on a college stadium lease.

I think LA is by far a bettert territory but outside of TX, no state rivals AL in terms of its football pride and to that degree I do find it ironic how the state features some historic college teams but nary a great site for a professional team.

[jouster]

Interesting. Actually, Giants Stadium is owned by the Giants themselves and not by the NJ sports authority....

No it isn't. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants_stadium)

It's owned and operated by the New Jersey Sports & Exposition Authority.

[brooklyn81]

I wish it was that easy. I also think that the 49ers will eventually have the finest stadium in the NFL, and it may even have a large amusement park on site. We just have to be patient, and hope that ground gets broken somewhere by 2010. I don't really care where they put it, as long as it's somewhere in the greater Bay Area, and it's ready for occupation by 2012 like they have said.

Tell me, are we gonna the same people who try to run this team to build a new stadium. Cant wait to see this.

[Coldrain85]

Tell me, are we gonna the same people who try to run this team to build a new stadium. Cant wait to see this.

I'm assuming you mean "are we gonna trust the same people".

That's what they're saying. That's who we have right now. Unless something new develops and is made public, that's what I'm going to assume.