How this season effects the stadium plan?

[ClobberHouse]

This failed season can't be good for the the plans York had moving to Santa Clara. If he needs to keep attendance up at the stick for the next few years he will need to have a concrete plan in place. If there is a real stadium deal people will see season tickets as an investment for good seats in the new stadium, if there is still no plan I see people leaving in droves.

Will Santa Clara even vote to pay taxes for this team when it is in such disarray? Will San Francisco need to vote to build the 49ers a stadium, and if so, are they likely to vote yes?

I would think this season is hurting the franchise in more ways then just having another losing season. Like Ratto said, "It could get much worse."

[BigJohnnyNiner]

I wouldn't want these chumps playing anywhere other than the PIG STY. They don't deserve to play anywhere other than the PIG STY. If the York's can EVER field a .500 team then maybe I'll change my tune...

[ninerjeff]

This failed season can't be good for the the plans York had moving to Santa Clara. If he needs to keep attendance up at the stick for the next few years he will need to have a concrete plan in place. If there is a real stadium deal people will see season tickets as an investment for good seats in the new stadium, if there is still no plan I see people leaving in droves.

Will Santa Clara even vote to pay taxes for this team when it is in such disarray? Will San Francisco need to vote to build the 49ers a stadium, and if so, are they likely to vote yes?

I would think this season is hurting the franchise in more ways then just having another losing season. Like Ratto said, "It could get much worse."

your right. this failed season absolutely has come at THE WORST time. it couldn't have possibly been blundered this badly. stadium? what stadium? no one will pay to come watch this crap, would you? if york has any brains he'll realize that such a bad year can only mean bad news for ANY new stadium project. no one will pay attention. it will just dwindle away like others before it. the only way any new stadium push can EVER get off the ground is if we START WINNING...AND SOON! i'll say it like legendary former niners qb and head coach frankie albert "everyone loves a winner, and no one, NO ONE, will tolerate a loser" the niners need to do thier part.:clapping:

[Fromthe3rdRow]

While I appreciate your enthusiam, I must point out a few inaccuracies in your post. This forum is a source of information about the stadium for many Niners fans. Let's be sure we are accurate in the information provided.

For starters - the plan proposed by the 49ers for a stadium in Santa Clara is still being evaluated by the city council. The good people or Santa Clara are NOT voting on the stadium. (Though I suspect that at some point in the future, they will have that opportunity.)

Secondly - there is NOTHING in the proposal which calls for additional taxes on Santa Clara city residents. In fact, the opposite has been clearly stated. Both the team and the city agreed from the start that any new stadium plans would NOT raise taxes or impact the general fund.

Lastly - the team's performance on the field may some impact on ticket sales - but the bottom line is the stadium project is a business deal and will fail or succeed on it's own merits. Yes, ticket sales are part of the equation, but I'm willing to bet the Niners will have an easier job selling their tickets than the Arizona Cardinals did. And ultimately, the Cards were able to sell out their new stadium.

[ethanh]

For starters - the plan proposed by the 49ers for a stadium in Santa Clara is still being evaluated by the city council. The good people or Santa Clara are NOT voting on the stadium. (Though I suspect that at some point in the future, they will have that opportunity.)

Secondly - there is NOTHING in the proposal which calls for additional taxes on Santa Clara city residents. In fact, the opposite has been clearly stated. Both the team and the city agreed from the start that any new stadium plans would NOT raise taxes or impact the general fund.
I was under the impression there would have to be a vote for them to use the county money to get the over 100 million to be supplied by the city. That money is the peoples money and giving it to the 49ers is something like $1,500 per person. That sure seems like a huge tax, especially if the city is going to somehow get it back in its reserves.

Do not have a link so I may be off with my understanding of the SC deal.

[TheWiz]

While I appreciate your enthusiam, I must point out a few inaccuracies in your post. This forum is a source of information about the stadium for many Niners fans. Let's be sure we are accurate in the information provided.

For starters - the plan proposed by the 49ers for a stadium in Santa Clara is still being evaluated by the city council. The good people or Santa Clara are NOT voting on the stadium. (Though I suspect that at some point in the future, they will have that opportunity.)

Secondly - there is NOTHING in the proposal which calls for additional taxes on Santa Clara city residents. In fact, the opposite has been clearly stated. Both the team and the city agreed from the start that any new stadium plans would NOT raise taxes or impact the general fund.

Lastly - the team's performance on the field may some impact on ticket sales - but the bottom line is the stadium project is a business deal and will fail or succeed on it's own merits. Yes, ticket sales are part of the equation, but I'm willing to bet the Niners will have an easier job selling their tickets than the Arizona Cardinals did. And ultimately, the Cards were able to sell out their new stadium.

Excellent post.

There is a big and very big flaw. The amount it takes to build the stadium is not determined by how good a team is. In fact, almost nothing about the proposed deal with Santa Clara can be affected by the team even being a perennial loser. The stadium maintenance, which will be very cheap to start with, will largely be paid by a land lease the team will pay to the city on the order of several million per season. Parking and Concessions also go entirely to the city stadium authority. Even if attendance plummets, the team has agreed to pay all shortfalls needed in maintance over the life of the stadium and their eventual lease. So once it's built, the city assumes no risk. Zero...zip..nada..gooseegg.

The only potential effect is low attendance does reduce the regional economic impact of the games. Fewer fans in hotels and restaurants and local stores. That should affect how much the city thinks it's worth it investing over 160M into the stadium. Yet at the same time, the city has free reign over the stadium for 350+ days of the year.

Ironically...a BAD team will be a good thing! Bad teams mean less traffic and disturbance to nearby locals. Heck, if you can convince them we will never host a SB and that we will be the 90s Bengals for the next 10 years then they'd be encouraged to vote yes if anything else.

I was under the impression there would have to be a vote for them to use the county money to get the over 100 million to be supplied by the city. That money is the peoples money and giving it to the 49ers is something like $1,500 per person. That sure seems like a huge tax, especially if the city is going to somehow get it back in its reserves.

Do not have a link so I may be off with my understanding of the SC deal.

The proposal clearly involves no new taxes (no gas taxes, sales taxes, penny taxes, etc) and it doesn't require the city to use any money from the cities general operating fund which helps pay for schools and public services. Meanwhile, the team has asked the city to involve over 160M of its own funds to make the deal work. The city has those funds. Some people cite 180M since it will cost 20M to move the substation on the land. But the city already has plans to replace the 'technology' at that station in the next decade using their vast electrical utility income. So, along those lines it won't cost them must extra, just the expense for them to expedite that part of their plans.

Next, the city is still looking into means to finance their part of the deal. All sorts of ideas have been thrown out. The team clearly noted the city's windfall in its electrical sector but such planned investments are not likely to be made. All sorts of moves from city issued bonds to office buildings on city owned land to diverting excess funds from city services that don't need them immediately have been suggested. If the city goes and asks for 100M in county money, it's their decision to pursue that avenue, not the team's. It would be like charging someone for bank robbery when they asked for $200 from a friend and that friend robbed a bank. If the city goes down that road, it was their decision.

[ethanh]

Next, the city is still looking into means to finance their part of the deal. All sorts of ideas have been thrown out. The team clearly noted the city's windfall in its electrical sector but such planned investments are not likely to be made. All sorts of moves from city issued bonds to office buildings on city owned land to diverting excess funds from city services that don't need them immediately have been suggested. If the city goes and asks for 100M in county money, it's their decision to pursue that avenue, not the team's. It would be like charging someone for bank robbery when they asked for $200 from a friend and that friend robbed a bank. If the city goes down that road, it was their decision.

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I wonder how motivated the city is to move enough money around rather then ask the public to pony up on a tax?
On the having a losing team and not getting a stadium subject:
I read articles that the reason York opened his wallet was for one reason, he needed a good team to sell the stadium deal. Obviously he want to win regardless but that was the way i took it. Is there any truth to that?

[TheWiz]

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I wonder how motivated the city is to move enough money around rather then ask the public to pony up on a tax?

What irks me is that if they do call for a tax then most likely people will blame the team. As if the 'Rich Yorks are asking for our private money' when that's not the case. The city would be asking because that would be their choice. I would not be shocked to see the city try to adopt a simple penny tax on gas and have it voted down.


On the having a losing team and not getting a stadium subject:
I read articles that the reason York opened his wallet was for one reason, he needed a good team to sell the stadium deal. Obviously he want to win regardless but that was the way i took it. Is there any truth to that?

No but that won't keep writers from always speculating and making it seem plausible enough for the fan to believe. Deep down fans still want to believe that York is a cheapskate. Somehow things like bottled water and belt buckles are more memorable than the millions he has spent on the weight room and practice surfaces. Given how many fans are ignorant of the salary cap, they still think he tries to be cheap and that image alone gives 'credibility' to these types of arguments.

Would a better team help image and sell the idea? Definitely. Was it his sole reason? No. Besides, with nearly 40M in cap space, what did you expect him to do? There are salary cap minimums in effect as well. If anything, spending on big names also sells more season tickets and is a reward in an of itself.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

{Sigh}

Why does it seem like so many people are so willing to heap piles of hatred and disdain upon the Yorks? Do local medi-ots still resent York for taking away their bottled water? I mean seriously, some of these sports writers really do need to grow up. They need to stop acting like spoiled children and more like responsible journalists....

[Fromthe3rdRow]

Did you watch this game tonight?

:wheel:

Jeebus, you're an absolute IODOT
Hmm. Help me out please. I don't recall which play John York was on the field. Was that him on the left side of the line when Alex got sacked?

Criminey. Talk about idjots....

Besides - I was talking about the mediots - not the fans. Some of THEM have their own category for stupidity.

[ethanh]

Hmm. Help me out please. I don't recall which play John York was on the field. Was that him on the left side of the line when Alex got sacked?

Criminey. Talk about idjots....

Besides - I was talking about the mediots - not the fans. Some of THEM have their own category for stupidity.

Not sure the media has it wrong about York, look at what has happened under his ownership. I know much of this is out of his hands but I can not see the last 5 years being like this with Eddie the owner. Something needs to change and big decisions are being made right now. Is York capable of making good decisions? Since I think the Santa Clara stadium move is a horrible idea and will hurt the franchise I question how he thinks on all decisions and maybe it does leak out on the field.

[Fromthe3rdRow]

Not sure the media has it wrong about York, look at what has happened under his ownership. I know much of this is out of his hands but I can not see the last 5 years being like this with Eddie the owner. Something needs to change and big decisions are being made right now. Is York capable of making good decisions? Since I think the Santa Clara stadium move is a horrible idea and will hurt the franchise I question how he thinks on all decisions and maybe it does leak out on the field.Some might argue that what the Yorks inherited was a mess created by Eddie and his co-horts. You do recall the circumstances surrounding Eddie's departure don't you? Don't get me wrong. I still hold fond memories of the Niner years under Eddie's ownership, but Eddie never played a down of football during those years either ....

[ethanh]

Some might argue that what the Yorks inherited was a mess created by Eddie and his co-horts. You do recall the circumstances surrounding Eddie's departure don't you? Don't get me wrong. I still hold fond memories of the Niner years under Eddie's ownership, but Eddie never played a down of football during those years either ....
The mess York inherited was a playoff team in huge salary cap hell. Not ideal but other teams have pulled out of cap situations and not gone in the tank for 5 years.

[brode49]

Well, I'm sure glad the York's and the business offices are working so hard to get a nice stadium.

Can they work on the football team sometime too?

I don't live anywhere near the area so the whole topic makes me angry and makes me not want to buy any knew 49ers gear or NFL gear, not so much because the team is horrible now but because it shows to me a lack of priority.

Yes, 3rd bleacher, dude, I realize that probably has nothing to do with the business, stadium deals, but it should.

[49ersince1989]

I think the timing of everything at the moment is abit wrong, their are problems with the team not producing as expected this year. The New stadium sounds good but.. Its like going to a funeral and afterwards saying hey lets beach party.

The stadium its location are big decisions and need to be thought over properly and carefully... I'm sure they have the business brains to do that. You got to tread carefully. I guess its tough being at the top.

[49erJon]

why spend money on a team that are not sb contestants yet wait until we when a couple of superbowls then get a new stadium. We should had gotten a new stadium when we were champions

[SC9erFan]

why spend money on a team that are not sb contestants yet wait until we when a couple of superbowls then get a new stadium. We should had gotten a new stadium when we were champions

The money isn't being spent for the team, it's being spent for the fans - Candlestick is easily the worst stadium in use in the NFL right now.