Oh, pooooooooor Peyton...

[Brian Jennings]

I'm so tired of hearing all the apologist analysts making excuses for Peyton's poor play of late. One top ten WR isn't enough, the poor guy needs two. Add on top of that having a top ten back in Addai and a solid TE in Clark.

The poor guy has only had two premium weapons instead of four lately.
Oh noes! Cry me a river, I guess he's finally getting a taste of what Brady has had to deal with for the last five years. Except Brady never had a guy like Reggie Wayne.

[badass316]

His offensive line has been the main culprit really... not having Ugoh for the last several weeks and having I think a 3rd stringer play LT is one of the main reason for the colts offensive deficiencies. Oh clark was also injured as well as his #1 and #3 WR. He's basically been throwing to scrubs the past couple of weeks. If you didn't watch the bolts game then you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

But I guess all those reasons will just go through one year and out the other with you.

[majesstik1]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/majesstik1/Footballs/peytonsmartz.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/majesstik1/Footballs/peytondouche.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/majesstik1/Footballs/peytonsad.jpg

[Trap_Star]

F peyton.

/close thread.

[Brian Jennings]

I'm saying essentially the same thing. How come now that he doesn't have a top tier supporting cast he's struggling? I thought he was the best in the game? He's still got a better supporting cast than most.

[Optimus Prime]

Everyone has a bad game once in awhile I don't see why excuses are even needed when we all know he'll bounce back. Whether you hate him or not he is still a top 10 QB of all time and when it's all said and done will likely own many QB records. Peyton Manning and Brady are both great QB's but it's tough to say which one is better although Brady is obviously having a much better year this season.

[BrentJones84]

His offensive line has been the main culprit really... not having Ugoh for the last several weeks and having I think a 3rd stringer play LT is one of the main reason for the colts offensive deficiencies. Oh clark was also injured as well as his #1 and #3 WR. He's basically been throwing to scrubs the past couple of weeks. If you didn't watch the bolts game then you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

But I guess all those reasons will just go through one year and out the other with you.

Yeah, in one game he lost BOTH of his tackles, and another OL-man, and they had to put a G in at T just to limp through the game.

Last week they only had 17 offensive players PERIOD that weren't injured, and then 3 guys went out during the game.

Peyton has been playing with guys who were on the practice squad as of the previous week.

Peyton can't make a pee-wee league team look good all by himself, but that's about how it's been for the Colts. Yet, He still finds a way to win....

[badass316]

I'm saying essentially the same thing. How come now that he doesn't have a top tier supporting cast he's struggling? I thought he was the best in the game? He's still got a better supporting cast than most.

Brady possesses the best pass blocking line in all of football and Peyton has a 3rd stringer protecting his blind side, you do the math. And your obviously just looking at his statistics since you don't see how many drops, routes ran incorrectly, and just flat out giving up on routes his receivers have done.

Peyton is still great, but even he can't turn scrubs into pro bowlers.

[badass316]

Yeah, in one game he lost BOTH of his tackles, and another OL-man, and they had to put a G in at T just to limp through the game.

Last week they only had 17 offensive players PERIOD that weren't injured, and then 3 guys went out during the game.

Peyton has been playing with guys who were on the practice squad as of the previous week.

Peyton can't make a pee-wee league team look good all by himself, but that's about how it's been for the Colts. Yet, He still finds a way to win....

From what I've seen this Jennings guy just appears to be a Manning hater who is just relishing the chance to pounce on Peyton while the colts are struggling. Since he obviously has no clue as to why Manning or the colts in general are struggling.

[Nevyn]

I'm so tired of hearing all the apologist analysts making excuses for Peyton's poor play of late. One top ten WR isn't enough, the poor guy needs two. Add on top of that having a top ten back in Addai and a solid TE in Clark.

The poor guy has only had two premium weapons instead of four lately.
Oh noes! Cry me a river, I guess he's finally getting a taste of what Brady has had to deal with for the last five years. Except Brady never had a guy like Reggie Wayne.

I hear ya, but at the same time it isn't just the top drawer guys he is missing. They are playing a guy they thought was their 3rd string LT in camp(picture, if you will, Patrick Estes starting a game for us), have another o-line injury, Clark has been hurt and missing time too, and he is now also missing Gonzalez and Moorehead, which basically means they can't use a lot of the multiple receiver formations that they like because they don't have enough guys, that they are starting people Manning has no practice time with, AND that they can't run the no huddle style he has been using for years because the new guys don't know the calls and adjustments.

Still, there is no excuse for 6 picks in a game (especially one where the opposing offense did nothing), and I have no sympathy for Manning's struggles. He has had a fairly blessed career in general when it comes to teammates.

[Optimus Prime]

Brady possesses the best pass blocking line in all of football and Peyton has a 3rd stringer protecting his blind side, you do the math. And your obviously just looking at his statistics since you don't see how many drops, routes ran incorrectly, and just flat out giving up on routes his receivers have done.

Peyton is still great, but even he can't turn scrubs into pro bowlers.

Thats true. Watching the Patriots this year you'll see that Brady has had all day to throw with out feeling any pressure. He's still putting up amazing numbers but I think his supporting cast this year is better than Manning may have ever had. Then there is also the whole running up the score thing the Pats are doing inflating their numbers which the Colts never really did very much when they were up a lot.

[Brian Jennings]

Thats true. Watching the Patriots this year you'll see that Brady has had all day to throw with out feeling any pressure. He's still putting up amazing numbers but I think his supporting cast this year is better than Manning may have ever had. Then there is also the whole running up the score thing the Pats are doing inflating their numbers which the Colts never really did very much when they were up a lot.Manning's cast in 2004 was pretty **** good. And they did run up the score in 2004, seems fitting that his record will be broken by someone who is running up the score even more.

[badass316]

Still, there is no excuse for 6 picks in a game (especially one where the opposing offense did nothing), and I have no sympathy for Manning's struggles. He has had a fairly blessed career in general when it comes to teammates.

It's actually a 5 int game since the 6th came from a hail mary at the end of the game. And he wouldn't have been even close to 5 ints if his receivers just stuck their arm out and batted some of the passes down instead of watching the opposing defenders just pick it off. His first int actually resulted in either moorehead or craphonso thorpe just giving up on the route and letting the defenders intercept the pass. 6 ints is 6 ints but to those who actually watched the game they know some of those ints could have been easily been thwarted by a WR who had the ability to stick his arm out.

[Nevyn]

Then there is also the whole running up the score thing the Pats are doing inflating their numbers which the Colts never really did very much when they were up a lot.

The Colts did their share of running it up. They tried to run out the clock, but if the safeties came in, Manning would shrug, audible to a WR, and notch another TD. The only difference is the Pats don't even try to run.

[badass316]

Thats true. Watching the Patriots this year you'll see that Brady has had all day to throw with out feeling any pressure. He's still putting up amazing numbers but I think his supporting cast this year is better than Manning may have ever had. Then there is also the whole running up the score thing the Pats are doing inflating their numbers which the Colts never really did very much when they were up a lot.

Thats right, when the colts are winning Manning runs the football. The only time he passes a lot in the 2nd half is when the game is still within reach or if he needs to (3rd and long). But if they are ahead by 2 or 3 touchdowns in the 3rd or 4th quarter he just runs the football and drains the clock.

[Nevyn]

It's actually a 5 int game since the 6th came from a hail mary at the end of the game.

It still counts on the stat sheet. I don't see anyone counting how many int's any other QB "really" had anywhere. Dilfer threw 2 such picks last game.


And he wouldn't have been even close to 5 ints if his receivers just stuck their arm out and batted some of the passes down instead of watching the opposing defenders just pick it off.

This one is just nonsense. Maybe one of those picks was one that a receiver could have broken up.

[badass316]

It still counts on the stat sheet. I don't see anyone counting how many int's any other QB "really" had anywhere. Dilfer threw 2 such picks last game.

That's true, but I just wanted to point it out.


This one is just nonsense. Maybe one of those picks was one that a receiver could have broken up.

No, not really. The WRs are oblicated to prevent a turnover if they can. And it wasn't just 1 case during that bolts game. There were at least 2 or 3 instances where the WR could have easily batted the pass down and prevented an int if I remember correctly. If you didn't get a chance to watch the game then I'd understand why you think what I said was non sense.

[Nevyn]

That's true, but I just wanted to point it out.



No, not really. The WRs are oblicated to prevent a turnover if they can. And it wasn't just 1 case during that bolts game. There were at least 2 or 3 instances where the WR could have easily batted the pass down and prevented an int if I remember correctly. If you didn't get a chance to watch the game then I'd understand why you think what I said was non sense.

I did watch the game and I don't recall thinking that any of them were caused/aided by poor effort on the part of the receivers.

[badass316]

I did watch the game and I don't recall thinking that any of them were caused/aided by poor effort on the part of the receivers.

Never said they were caused by the WRs. Although the 1st one was when moorehead or craphonso thrope literally gave up on the route and allowed the defense to intercept the ball in the endzone. The receiver just stopped running and watched the guy intercept the pass, so I guess you can make a case that certain int was caused by the WR. What I did say was that 2 or 3 of his 5 interceptions could have been easily broken up if the receiver had just stuck his arm out and not just watch the defender intercept the ball.

[Sac-King_916]

Brady>Manning

Not to knock Manning, I like Manning, but he's had a great supporting cast throughout most of his carrer. Now that Brady finally has one, he is easily the best QB the game has ever seen IMO. Yet people feel the need to say that Brady's success is widely due to his supporting cast, but it wasn't the same scenario for Manning all these years? Why is that? Manning has dealt with two great recievers in Reggie Wayne and a top 5 all-time reciever in Marvin Harrison. However, when one of them goes down and production slips people seem to have all these excuses for Manning. I know the guy is good, but are all these excuses necessary? Brady has dealt with crappy recievers his entire carrer up untill now, and now that he finally has a supporting cast his numbers are the best people have ever seen. All I'm saying is it's funny how when The Colts aren't playing well and Manning's production is down, it never seems to be his fault. Manning now knows what it is like to play with a sub-par offense, which Brady has pretty much dealt with throughout his entire carrer up untill now. Can we just say that the Colts including Manning are simply not playing well as of right now?



IMO:
Brady with supporting cast = Best ever, Brady without supporting cast = Great

Manning with supporting cast = Great, Manning without supporting cast = Sub-par

At least that's what I've seen ...

[Smith2Bryant]

The Colts did their share of running it up. They tried to run out the clock, but if the safeties came in, Manning would shrug, audible to a WR, and notch another TD. The only difference is the Pats don't even try to run.

You're going to have to show me some evidence of that because I don't remember him ever doing that, and I've had him on my fantasy team for the last 4 years so I've watched/followed pretty much all of his games.

Some examples of the top of my head are the balitmore game from his record breaking season and washington game from last year. The colts got the ball back after they intercepted the ball and brought it back somewhere inside their 5(i think the 4 or 3 yard line) with 59 seconds left. He could have easily thrown a td pass and tied the record there, but with the game out of reach he decided to kneel and end the game right there, which btw, didn't help my fantasy team out since it was the championship game!

In the washington game from last year, the colts got the ball back with about 10 minutes left to play and a 33-14 score in the game. They drove the ball down the field on a long time consuming drive(i think they got the clock to about 4 minutes), they could have easily drove it down for another score but on a 3rd down play, peyton chose to spike the ball and kick the field goal.

I don't like Manning, believe it or not. I think he's a bad team mate(blames his team mates before himself) and a choker, but the last thing I'd accuse him of is running up the score. Having him on my fantasy team, it's always been frustrating watching him run the ball in for the td(philly game last year) or run out the clock, instead of throwing the td and running up the score.

[Sac-King_916]

I'll I'm trying to say is the Colt's including Manning are seemingly not playing well. I'm not blamming it all on Manning, because the whole team seems to be in a slump, but in all honesty he hasn't necessarily been making the greatest of decisions.

[badass316]

No, it isn't a Manning vs Brady thread. However, the thread starter does mention Brady in his post. I believe he said "I guess Manning's finally getting a taste of what Brady has had to deal with for the last five years". So yeah, that's how that came about. As for the O-Line, it's no excuse. I mean seriously, it's not like Brady has never had an O-linemen go down before. It happens to everyone. Practice squad or not, he still has a pro bowl caliber reciever in Wayne. Minus Deion Branch (who isn't very good to begin with), Brady has been throwing to practice squad guy's his entire carrer.

OL is not an excuse? :laugh: I swear if I didn't know you I would mistake you for being blind or a complete moron (which I think your starting to become). He's lost basically each starting tackle and the backup. He's had a 3rd stringer cover his blind side. But hey, if it's not an excuse to you it must mean it's not an excuse at all. Brady has been throwing to practice squad guys? :laugh: The guys he had actually had somewhat recognizable names (Brown, Givens, Branch). The last 2 games Manning has had craphonso thorpe and roy hall.


Nice pic of Samuel L. by the way, funny how you had to dig into Maj's photobucket album for that one :fishing:

Nah, I actually saw it in one of his posts. I don't scour these forums like you do for everything and anything. I'm glad you like it since I figured it was fitting since you were posting out of your arse which I've seen you have had a habit of doing when it concerns the Manning vs Brady issue.



As of right now, he is playing sub-par. Who can deny that? Yes we know, the excuses.

Pat's have never really had a running game, minus the first year of an old Corey Dillion. I guess to you that accounts to all thier SB's though. The great defense I'll give you.

I'm pretty sure if brady lost matt light and whoever his right tackle is he wouldn't have 6 seconds to throw the ball every down. And the pats did have a running game in 01, they didn't ride Brady to the SB, go look it up yourself. In 04 they had a 1600 yard back in Dillon. All three years they had a great defense. So Brady didn't play such an important factor like you think he did in those 3 SB wins, it took a team effort. I should have known replying to any post of yours concerning Brady is moot since your man crush on him outweighs anything in your life :laugh:

[badass316]

I'll I'm trying to say is the Colt's including Manning are seemingly not playing well. I'm not blamming it all on Manning, because the whole team seems to be in a slump, but in all honesty he hasn't necessarily been making the greatest of decisions.

:laugh:

Now you try to make yourself look reasonable by saying Manning isn't all that bad after all. It ain't working, your better of going back to your Brady > Manning routine. :hoppy:

[fabie]

Brady possesses the best pass blocking line in all of football and Peyton has a 3rd stringer protecting his blind side, you do the math. And your obviously just looking at his statistics since you don't see how many drops, routes ran incorrectly, and just flat out giving up on routes his receivers have done.

Peyton is still great, but even he can't turn scrubs into pro bowlers.Tom Brady is better!:pirate:

[badass316]

Tom Brady is better!:pirate:

For 1 year, this year. :biggrin:

[ozzcows]

They've lost two games.... ??? Get off his nutters. Thanks for giving us a lame thread.

[Sac-King_916]

OL is not an excuse? I swear if I didn't know you I would mistake you for being blind or a complete moron (which I think your starting to become). He's lost basically each starting tackle and the backup. He's had a 3rd stringer cover his blind side. But hey, if it's not an excuse to you it must mean it's not an excuse at all. Brady has been throwing to practice squad guys? The guys he had actually had somewhat recognizable names (Brown, Givens, Branch). The last 2 games Manning has had craphonso thorpe and roy hall.I was unaware that he was down to a 3rd stringer, so I'll give him that. As far as the reciever's go, you manage to always leave Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark's (minus 1 game) name out of the picture. Not to mention Utecht and Addai out of the backfield. So, it's not like Thorpe is the only one he has to throw to. I don't believe the Colt's have a Roy Hall enlisted on their roster. Is Given's in the league anymore? JK.




Nah, I actually saw it in one of his posts. I don't scour these forums like you do for everything and anything. I'm glad you like it since I figured it was fitting since you were posting out of your arse which I've seen you have had a habit of doing when it concerns the Manning vs Brady issue.
You're digging up pics, yet I'm the one who scours? :thinking: Right.



I'm pretty sure if brady lost matt light and whoever his right tackle is he wouldn't have 6 seconds to throw the ball every down. And the pats did have a running game in 01, they didn't ride Brady to the SB, go look it up yourself. In 04 they had a 1600 yard back in Dillon. All three years they had a great defense. So Brady didn't play such an important factor like you think he did in those 3 SB wins, it took a team effort. I should have known replying to any post of yours concerning Brady is moot since your man crush on him outweighs anything in your life
Light is good. Brady's RT already sucks as it is.

If Antowain Smith rushing for 1,100 is a running game, then I guess so. I mentioned they had Dillon in '04.

As for the SBs:
In 2001: Brady wasn't much of factor, but let's take into account this was his first year as a starter once Bledsoe went down. He still got the job done with 0 turnovers. 1 TD, 0 INT

In 2003: Brady threw for 350+ yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT

In 2004: (with Dillon) Brady threw for 230+ yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT

Of course it was a team effort, but I wouldn't say Brady wasn't an important factor. That's rediculous.




EDIT: Take a chill pill, bro. You get way too defensive. Lol.

[BladeX]

I'm so tired of hearing all the apologist analysts making excuses for Peyton's poor play of late. One top ten WR isn't enough, the poor guy needs two. Add on top of that having a top ten back in Addai and a solid TE in Clark.

The poor guy has only had two premium weapons instead of four lately.
Oh noes! Cry me a river, I guess he's finally getting a taste of what Brady has had to deal with for the last five years. Except Brady never had a guy like Reggie Wayne.

Its thier Oline, but then again you have to watch the games to realize that.

[fabie]

For 1 year, this year. :biggrin:Leaps and bounds...........better than Peyton.

[BigB_85]

I didn't watch the KC game, but even in the SD game I thought Peyton played decently despite all his interceptions. Watching the game, it was pretty evident that he was one of the only ones who knew what he was doing out there, and making plays.

[sf49ergirl85]

So Peyton's had a few bad games. Every quarterback has.

Man, football fans are freaking drama queens, LOL.

[sf49ergirl85]

Correction, male football fans are drama queens...:laugh:

I was going to put that, but I didn't want to start an mb war on a holiday, lol.

[sf49ergirl85]

:falldownlaugh: Woops...:hide:

Yeah, thanks! LOL

[TheRedOct]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/majesstik1/Footballs/peytonsmartz.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/majesstik1/Footballs/peytondouche.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/majesstik1/Footballs/peytonsad.jpg

LOL These never get old.

[SB49er4life]

I'm so tired of hearing all the apologist analysts making excuses for Peyton's poor play of late. One top ten WR isn't enough, the poor guy needs two. Add on top of that having a top ten back in Addai and a solid TE in Clark.

The poor guy has only had two premium weapons instead of four lately.
Oh noes! Cry me a river, I guess he's finally getting a taste of what Brady has had to deal with for the last five years. Except Brady never had a guy like Reggie Wayne.

I dunno, maybe that has something to do with the crazy notion that QUARTERBACKS ARE NOT A ONE MAN TEAM AND NEED PLAYERS AROUND THEM TO SUCCEED !!

Oh well, I guess that means Peyton Mannings' a bust...


Tom Brady never had a big playmaker at WR, but he consistently has all day to throw the ball, and always had smart, reliable receivers that didn't drop balls at the very least.

[Godlovesthe49er]

I'm so tired of hearing all the apologist analysts making excuses for Peyton's poor play of late. One top ten WR isn't enough, the poor guy needs two. Add on top of that having a top ten back in Addai and a solid TE in Clark.

The poor guy has only had two premium weapons instead of four lately.
Oh noes! Cry me a river, I guess he's finally getting a taste of what Brady has had to deal with for the last five years. Except Brady never had a guy like Reggie Wayne.

preach it brother! oh poor baby....i bet he throws his Oline under the bus again or possible the wr corps...:ninercaphell:

[DeadlyNiners]

He's playing good for having a 3rd string LT dude with these no name receivers. I'm not sure if Wayne can be a #1 star wr like Moss, TO, Steve Smith, and Harrison - just to name a few.

[Godlovesthe49er]

He's playing good for having a 3rd string LT dude with these no name receivers. I'm not sure if Wayne can be a #1 star wr like Moss, TO, Steve Smith, and Harrison - just to name a few.

:nolisten: okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[49ersCatch]

Calm down they've lost 2 games.
Peyton is still the 2nd best.

[sandiegojoe]

Pyton only works well when his system is set up for him. He's sort of like a robot. When his receivers are on their routes and he has time, he is the best in the business. But, like a robot, if you throw something out of whack, he starts to malfunction and smoke comes out of his ears. When he gets pressured and sacked, he's a disaster, and has no idea how to improvise. That's where Brady (and half the starting QBs in the league) look a lot better than he does.

One of my favorite things in the NFL is watching a Manning meltdown.

[Captain America]

I have never understand why some people hate on Peyton Manning. He is everything that is right about the NFL, and unlike a lot of other players, can be a positive role model.

[sandiegojoe]

I have never understand why some people hate on Peyton Manning. He is everything that is right about the NFL, and unlike a lot of other players, can be a positive role model.

I don't hate on him as a person, just as a QB. he's technically excellent, he just doesn't have the improvisation and passion that you see in other "great QBs".

It's almost like when you see some guitar player who can do amazing high sped solos. It's impressive, but it doesn't have half the heart as a simple BB King riff.

[SB49er4life]

Brady>Manning

Not to knock Manning, I like Manning, but he's had a great supporting cast throughout most of his carrer. Now that Brady finally has one, he is easily the best QB the game has ever seen IMO. Yet people feel the need to say that Brady's success is widely due to his supporting cast, but it wasn't the same scenario for Manning all these years? Why is that? Manning has dealt with two great recievers in Reggie Wayne and a top 5 all-time reciever in Marvin Harrison. However, when one of them goes down and production slips people seem to have all these excuses for Manning. I know the guy is good, but are all these excuses necessary? Brady has dealt with crappy recievers his entire carrer up untill now, and now that he finally has a supporting cast his numbers are the best people have ever seen. All I'm saying is it's funny how when The Colts aren't playing well and Manning's production is down, it never seems to be his fault. Manning now knows what it is like to play with a sub-par offense, which Brady has pretty much dealt with throughout his entire carrer up untill now. Can we just say that the Colts including Manning are simply not playing well as of right now?



IMO:
Brady with supporting cast = Best ever, Brady without supporting cast = Great

Manning with supporting cast = Great, Manning without supporting cast = Sub-par

At least that's what I've seen ...

I gotta agree with everything you say about Brady>Manning....

....except, there is this idea that Brady had "crappy" WR's his entire career. That's not true at all.

They were not GAMEBREAKING wr's like Harrison/Wayne are, but they were sure handed, reliable, and very smart. Troy Brown, Deion Branch... those guys didn't really make mistakes.

On a side note, not that it matters a great deal, but Indy wasn't running up the score like NE is doing this year. I remember several instances when Manning could have added to his TD total, but they elected to either run the ball to grind the clock, or just take a knee.

[Brian Jennings]

sure handed, reliable, and very smart...

Tell that to Reche Caldwell.

[SBbound49ers]

sure handed, reliable, and very smart...

Tell that to Reche Caldwell.

He had 61 catches, thats pretty good. Yeah he choked in the playoffs but he was a reliable target all year for Brady.

Why am I even trying though? Once a hater, always a hater.

[Brian Jennings]

The point is that until this year, Brady has had decent WRs at best whilst Peyton has had two of the best in the game year after year.

[Godlovesthe49er]

The point is that until this year, Brady has had decent WRs at best whilst Peyton has had two of the best in the game year after year.

and peyton cries like a baby:puppet:

[BrentJones84]

I have never understand why some people hate on Peyton Manning. He is everything that is right about the NFL, and unlike a lot of other players, can be a positive role model.

Same reason some people hate Tom Brady.

Same reason some people hated Joe Montana way back when,

Some people just hate a winner.

Especially when they are winning for a different team.

[WildCardBound]

Everyone has a bad game once in awhile I don't see why excuses are even needed when we all know he'll bounce back. Whether you hate him or not he is still a top 10 QB of all time and when it's all said and done will likely own many QB records. Peyton Manning and Brady are both great QB's but it's tough to say which one is better although Brady is obviously having a much better year this season.

I agree, Peytons a monster, he'll be back. When its all over he will hold almost every QB record. I also agree that he is already one of the 10 best QB's of all time and if i was picking any QB from any point in time i would take him in the top 5.

[WildCardBound]

I also love how a *****ty year for peyton is being 6th in TD passes and 5th in yards. Both of which he'll probably be higher in by the end of the season.

[goldminer]

the only thing i find amusing is last year when peyton was interviewed asking what he thought about the game where alex threw 5 or 6 picks. peyton said it would never happen to him (peyton) and if it did it would mean it was time for him to retire.

[49erPhil]

I'm so tired of hearing all the apologist analysts making excuses for Peyton's poor play of late. One top ten WR isn't enough, the poor guy needs two. Add on top of that having a top ten back in Addai and a solid TE in Clark.

The poor guy has only had two premium weapons instead of four lately.
Oh noes! Cry me a river, I guess he's finally getting a taste of what Brady has had to deal with for the last five years. Except Brady never had a guy like Reggie Wayne.

Don't forget the fact that Peyton Manning has had all the time in the world behind a absolutely great offensive line his whole career! You combine that with all the weapons he has had it's no wonder he puts up good stats. Who wouldn't? Peyton has only been sacked an average of once a game throughout his entire career, but when someone does get some pressure on him he always chokes. A prime example was six interceptions in the San Diego game the other night.

[SBbound49ers]

Brady has always had a pretty good o-line. Dont forget, he had an AWFUL game in MIA when his protection broke down. He also had a 4 INT game vs Indy last season.

[49erPhil]

:tomato: Everyone has a bad game once in awhile I don't see why excuses are even needed when we all know he'll bounce back. Whether you hate him or not he is still a top 10 QB of all time and when it's all said and done will likely own many QB records. Peyton Manning and Brady are both great QB's but it's tough to say which one is better although Brady is obviously having a much better year this season.

I live in Indiana, and there's no where in the world where Manning worship is practiced more. I've always had to ask myself is it Peyton that makes his team better or is it the players around him that make him look good. Don't get me wrong he is a good quarterback, but you have to wonder what starting caliber quarterback in the NFL wouldn't be good with that surrounding cast. He has a few players go down this year and all of a sudden he's been pretty pathetic. It wasn't so much Marvin Harrison, or Dallas Clark, but the problems with the O-line. When Peyton gets pressured he's terrible. He always has been. The Patriots, Chargers, and Steelers can all tell you that. Montana in the eighties didn't have as many weapons or the line that Manning has had and Joe won four superbowls. Brady this year finally has a great line and weapons and he's going to shatter Manning's record. Even before this year Brady's numbers were almost as good as Mannings with far less of an offensive cast around him.

[Godlovesthe49er]

the only thing i find amusing is last year when peyton was interviewed asking what he thought about the game where alex threw 5 or 6 picks. peyton said it would never happen to him (peyton) and if it did it would mean it was time for him to retire.

:throw: i hate manning...MVP psssh more like most likely to cut down a younger player and make himself feel better...serves him right to have a crappy game after running his mouth:puppet:

[Godlovesthe49er]

:tomato:

I live in Indiana, and there's no where in the world where Manning worship is practiced more. I've always had to ask myself is it Peyton that makes his team better or is it the players around him that make him look good. Don't get me wrong he is a good quarterback, but you have to wonder what starting caliber quarterback in the NFL wouldn't be good with that surrounding cast. He has a few players go down this year and all of a sudden he's been pretty pathetic. It wasn't so much Marvin Harrison, or Dallas Clark, but the problems with the O-line. When Peyton gets pressured he's terrible. He always has been. The Patriots, Chargers, and Steelers can all tell you that. Montana in the eighties didn't have as many weapons or the line that Manning has had and Joe won four superbowls. Brady this year finally has a great line and weapons and he's going to shatter Manning's record. Even before this year Brady's numbers were almost as good as Mannings with far less of an offensive cast around him.

agreed... manning=:nolisten:

[49erPhil]

Brady possesses the best pass blocking line in all of football and Peyton has a 3rd stringer protecting his blind side, you do the math. And your obviously just looking at his statistics since you don't see how many drops, routes ran incorrectly, and just flat out giving up on routes his receivers have done.

Peyton is still great, but even he can't turn scrubs into pro bowlers.

I agree that Brady does have one of the best O-lines this year, but Manning has had that blessing through his entire career. He has only been sacked once a game through a ten year career. Don't tell me it's a quick release either. He has all day to get his happy feet going. Take a look at Brady's career stats compared to Manning's career stats. Peyton does have an edge at least for a few seasons in touchdown passes, but completion percentage, quarterback rating, etc. are almost identical. We're talking just offensive stats, not defensive. The only real difference is that Brady has done it with players that don't come close to comparing to the team that Manning has around him. At least until this year anyway. Peyton can't handle pressure, and his post season stats will show you that. Brady's numbers get even better in the post season. He's just much more of a poised quarterback. He's the first guy that you could compare to Montana.

[Godlovesthe49er]

I agree that Brady does have one of the best O-lines this year, but Manning has had that blessing through his entire career. He has only been sacked once a game through a ten year career. Don't tell me it's a quick release either. He has all day to get his happy feet going. Take a look at Brady's career stats compared to Manning's career stats. Peyton does have an edge at least for a few seasons in touchdown passes, but completion percentage, quarterback rating, etc. are almost identical. We're talking just offensive stats, not defensive. The only real difference is that Brady has done it with players that don't come close to comparing to the team that Manning has around him. At least until this year anyway. Peyton can't handle pressure, and his post season stats will show you that. Brady's numbers get even better in the post season. He's just much more of a poised quarterback. He's the first guy that you could compare to Montana.

manning :lightning: LOL

[49erPhil]

Brady>Manning

Not to knock Manning, I like Manning, but he's had a great supporting cast throughout most of his carrer. Now that Brady finally has one, he is easily the best QB the game has ever seen IMO. Yet people feel the need to say that Brady's success is widely due to his supporting cast, but it wasn't the same scenario for Manning all these years? Why is that? Manning has dealt with two great recievers in Reggie Wayne and a top 5 all-time reciever in Marvin Harrison. However, when one of them goes down and production slips people seem to have all these excuses for Manning. I know the guy is good, but are all these excuses necessary? Brady has dealt with crappy recievers his entire carrer up untill now, and now that he finally has a supporting cast his numbers are the best people have ever seen. All I'm saying is it's funny how when The Colts aren't playing well and Manning's production is down, it never seems to be his fault. Manning now knows what it is like to play with a sub-par offense, which Brady has pretty much dealt with throughout his entire carrer up untill now. Can we just say that the Colts including Manning are simply not playing well as of right now?



IMO:
Brady with supporting cast = Best ever, Brady without supporting cast = Great

Manning with supporting cast = Great, Manning without supporting cast = Sub-par

At least that's what I've seen ...

Don't forget that alot of people were saying that Randy Moss was washed up. He gets with Brady and he's putting up record breaking numbers. Wes Welker to my knowledge only had one touchdown reception last year. He gets with Brady and he's put up seven or eight, not to mention leading the Patriots in receptions. He reminds you alot of a Brandon Stokely doesn't he? I don't think Donte Stallworth has ever had more than six or eight touchdowns in a season has he? He's right around there already this year with Tom Brady. He's definately the best quarterback in the NFL, and has been for a long time. He just reminds you of a Joe Montana type of player.

[low_N_breezy]

the patriots cheat...tom doesnt need a supporting cast

[Godlovesthe49er]

the patriots cheat...tom doesnt need a supporting cast

the colts and cheat and get calls there way all the freaking time:puppet:

[txboi]

The fact that Peyton still has reggie wayne already makes his starting wideouts better than anything that Brady had last year. Everyone at ESPN just can't face the fact that Brady is better than their favorite QB that likes making commercials for them. Brady>Manning

[Rexi]

Reggie Wayne a top 10 WR? Eh, don't think so...He's more of a complementary guy IMO...

John Taylor II he is not.

[Brian Jennings]

Brady has always had a pretty good o-line. Dont forget, he had an AWFUL game in MIA when his protection broke down. He also had a 4 INT game vs Indy last season.Remember 2005 when his entire line went down and he still led them to a 13-5 record?

Reggie Wayne a top 10 WR? Eh, don't think so...He's more of a complementary guy IMO...

John Taylor II he is not.
You also think that Bernard Berrian is better than Torry Holt, so you have no credibility in this discussion.

[jmichura]

People like to argue that Manning has the receivers. But I really wonder how good those receivers would have been had Peyton not been throwing them the ball and in that system. It's kinda hard to figure out simply because Harrison wasn't in the league long before Manning got there. It's not like he was a superstar before he played with Manning like Moss was before Brady.

[Rexi]

You also think that Bernard Berrian is better than Torry Holt, so you have no credibility in this discussion.Okay...Aren't you the one that said Vince Young was better than Ben Roethlisberger? :tung:

Eh, I don't know about that as much anymore...Berrian's hands aren't nearly as good as I thought they were when I said that, I've seen more of him since then. Berrian is more explosive then Holt is, though.

Anyway, I'd certainly take:

Steve Smith
Owens
Randy Moss
Galloway
Chambers
Boldin
Roy Williams
Fitzgerald
Burress
Chad Johnson
Andre Johnson
Marvin Harrison

Before Wayne....:smile:

[Nevyn]

You also think that Bernard Berrian is better than Torry Holt, so you have no credibility in this discussion.

Just pointing out that you have accidentally implied that he has credibility in any discussion.

[Rexi]

Just pointing out that you have accidentally implied that he has credibility in any discussion.

:rolleyes2:

Aren't you one of those clowns who still thinks T.O. is a "team ruining cancer"?

You have no business insulting anyone else's intelligence if that's the case.

[Brian Jennings]

Okay...Aren't you the one that said Vince Young was better than Ben Roethlisberger? :tung:Compare their numbers at this point in their careers. Young has been struggling, shocking that a QB would struggle in year two, yeah?

Eh, I don't know about that as much anymore...Berrian's hands aren't nearly as good as I thought they were when I said that, I've seen more of him since then. Berrian is more explosive then Holt is, though.Berrian had a ton of drops when you said that and you ignored it when I said that. Hear that? It's the sound of me being right.

Anyway, I'd certainly take:

Steve Smith
Owens
Randy Moss
Galloway Are you retarded?
Chambers See above
Boldin
Roy Williams
Fitzgerald
Burress
Chad Johnson
Andre Johnson
Marvin Harrison He's not going to ever be the same

Before Wayne....:smile:Fixed.

[Rexi]

Compare their numbers at this point in their careers. Young has been struggling, shocking that a QB would struggle in year two, yeah?First off, calm the **** down. I actually think you're a pretty cool dude, but you're getting your panties caught up in a bunch because I disagreed with you on one little thing. I know that most people on this board approach arguments that way, but I don't. Anyway:

Young hasn't proven ****, other than his ability to run. You said something like: "There is no QB I'd rather have than Vince Young outside of Manning and Brady." I'll let that speak for itself.

I was just pointing out that if you are going to go after my credibility I can go after yours as well. You can do the same thing to anyone, everyone says some dumb things on the internet once in a while--I'm the first to admit I've been wrong before. I just don't care to get in a huge flame war with you over some stupid .com argument.

Berrian had a ton of drops when you said that and you ignored it when I said that. Hear that? It's the sound of me being right.Yeah, so? Berrian is still much faster and is a better deep threat than Holt is, I was just wrong about his hands. Congrats on being right about a nitpick on a list of guys I listed as being better than Holt off the top of my head.

Fixed.
Wayne better than Galloway? Dude...Galloway is one of the NFL's fastest players, he gets as much separation as anyone, and he's singlehandedly making Garcia look like a respectable starter right now. I doubt Wayne would be capable of doing that on his own.

He's sort of had "Chris Chambers syndrome" of ****ty QBing his entire career as well, only he's had to deal with injuries too, while bouncing around the league.

And Reggie Wayne better than Larry Fitzgerald? Come on...Fitzgerald is unbeatable on a jump ball and is an ideal red zone target. We'll see how Harrison comes back from the injury but before this he was CLEARLY the #1 guy over Wayne on that team.

Wayne is pretty good in almost all aspects of the game...But I don't see him as being truly elite in any. There are faster guys..quicker guys...more physical guys...better deep threats...Better guys after the catch...etc.

He's a great #2, but I just don't count him among the elite, top of the line, #1 studs in the league.

[Brian Jennings]

First off, calm the **** down. I actually think you're a pretty cool dude, but you're getting your panties caught up in a bunch because I disagreed with you on one little thing. I know that most people on this board approach arguments that way, but I don't.Calm down? Just because you get excited over internet arguments doesn't mean I do.

Anyway:

Young hasn't proven ****, other than his ability to run. You said something like: "There is no QB I'd rather have than Vince Young outside of Manning and Brady." I'll let that speak for itself.Link? Because I expressly remember saying Palmer was better than him as well. Try watching some Titans games, he can pass. But I guess the crap supporting cast argument only applies to WRs, more specifically Chambers and Galloway, right?

Berrian is still much faster and is a better deep threat than Holt is, I was just wrong about his hands. Congrats on being right about a nitpick on a list of guys I listed as being better than Holt off the top of my head.So does dropping all kinds of deep passes make you a better deep threat?

It's one thing to say Joey Galloway is better than Holt, it's another to say a clown like Berrian is better than him. You're comparing a guy who has 130 catches and 10 TDs in 3 and a half seasons to a guy who has had 117 and 12 TDs in a single season. Believe me, that's a whole new level of stupid.

Wayne better than Galloway? Dude...Galloway is one of the NFL's fastest players, he gets as much separation as anyone, and he's singlehandedly making Garcia look like a respectable starter right now. I doubt Wayne would be capable of doing that on his own.There's a lot more than just speed to being a good WR. Route running, hands and being able to stay healthy are all just as important.

You doubt Wayne could do that? Okay, well I'll take you word for it since you know everything.

He's sort of had "Chris Chambers syndrome" of ****ty QBing his entire career as well, only he's had to deal with injuries too, while bouncing around the league. I love how this excuse applies to your guys but you ignore the fact that Young's WRs have dropped more balls on third down than any other QB.

And Reggie Wayne better than Larry Fitzgerald? Come on...Fitzgerald is unbeatable on a jump ball and is an ideal red zone target. We'll see how Harrison comes back from the injury but before this he was CLEARLY the #1 guy over Wayne on that team.Clearly eh? How about the fact that he was outperforming Harrison in the first five games? 20 catches to 28. 1 TD to 4. Harrison and Wayne were pretty close last season stats wise too. Harrison in his prime was better than Wayne, but right now he's on the decline and will be even less of a factor with injuries starting to nag him.

Wayne is pretty good in almost all aspects of the game...But I don't see him as being truly elite in any. There are faster guys..quicker guys...more physical guys...better deep threats...Better guys after the catch...etc.So if a guy outperforms him in one aspect, he's clearly better than him, right? So I guess that Berrian is better than him because he's a better deep threat, right? Wayne does everything well, and like it or not, that constitutes and elite WR.

He's a great #2, but I just don't count him among the elite, top of the line, #1 studs in the league.

Let's see, he's been the number one guy in Indy the last several weeks and even with Peyton playing like ****, he's still getting his job done. Or does the ****ty QBing excuse only apply to Chambers and Galloway?

[Rexi]

Calm down? Just because you get excited over internet arguments doesn't mean I do.

Link? Because I expressly remember saying Palmer was better than him as well. Try watching some Titans games, he can pass. But I guess the crap supporting cast argument only applies to WRs, more specifically Chambers and Galloway, right?Dude, you can be as biased as you like but I disagree that Young "can pass." I'm not going to say Young supporting cast is great or even good...but the dude as a passer, is trash. It's not like he's standing back there making every throw and his WR's are letting him down--he's just generally not that accurate.

So does dropping all kinds of deep passes make you a better deep threat?
No, the ability to run reasonably fast (unlike Holt) makes him a better deep threat.
It's one thing to say Joey Galloway is better than Holt, it's another to say a clown like Berrian is better than him. You're comparing a guy who has 130 catches and 10 TDs in 3 and a half seasons to a guy who has had 117 and 12 TDs in a single season. Believe me, that's a whole new level of stupid.Yeah and like I said, that list was off the top of my head. Take Berrian off of it. And please don't shove Holt's stats out at me...they're inflated as hell.

There's a lot more than just speed to being a good WR. Route running, hands and being able to stay healthy are all just as important.

You doubt Wayne could do that? Okay, well I'll take you word for it since you know everything.Yeah, I put "ability to make big plays" on my highest list of importance. I just don't see Wayne flat-out embarassing corners like Galloway does...And yeah, speed isn't *everything* but it's pretty important as long as a receiver isn't awful in every other aspect of the game. You can't defend it.

I love how this excuse applies to your guys but you ignore the fact that Young's WRs have dropped more balls on third down than any other QB.Yeah, and Alex Smith's WR's have been awful as well--doesn't mean he's any good either.

Clearly eh? How about the fact that he was outperforming Harrison in the first five games? 20 catches to 28. 1 TD to 4. Harrison and Wayne were pretty close last season stats wise too. Harrison in his prime was better than Wayne, but right now he's on the decline and will be even less of a factor with injuries starting to nag him.Or maybe Wayne is benefitting from coverages being rolled his way? Now, I'm not necessarily sayign that's the case because I haven't observed it. But superior "production" doesn't necessarily = outperforming.

Before this injury, I didn't really get the sense that Harrison was out of his "prime"? How was he any different?

So if a guy outperforms him in one aspect, he's clearly better than him, right? So I guess that Berrian is better than him because he's a better deep threat, right? Wayne does everything well, and like it or not, that constitutes and elite WR.If that one aspect alone makes him better. In Berrian's case, it doesn't.



Let's see, he's been the number one guy in Indy the last several weeks and even with Peyton playing like ****, he's still getting his job done. Or does the ****ty QBing excuse only apply to Chambers and Galloway?Peyton's been throwing more picks--but he's I wouldn't say he's playing like ****. He's still fairly accurate, and he's had to force a lot of things because of the nature of their system--Wayne not being able to pick up the slack of Harrison being gone points more out to me about his lack of being a true #1 than anything.

Look, if Wayne was as good as you say, he should be able to blow open games on his own (meaning without Harrison, because as bad as the stat sheet for Manning look he's still getting him the ball.) I don't see it. He's not dominant enough in any aspect of the game for me to call him a true #1 game breaker.

Galloway and Chambers on the other hand, can. Galloway blows past corners with speed and Chambers can basically do it all--down the field, jump balls, and occasionally after the catch. Peyton Manning on his worst day is probably 1000x better than anyone these guys have had to work with their entire careers.

[Brian Jennings]

No, the ability to run reasonably fast (unlike Holt) makes him a better deep threat.Yeah and like I said, that list was off the top of my head. Take Berrian off of it. And please don't shove Holt's stats out at me...they're inflated as hell.Inflated or not, when he has a single season that is almost as much as another guy's career, saying that just make you look plain silly.

Yeah, I put "ability to make big plays" on my highest list of importance. I just don't see Wayne flat-out embarassing corners like Galloway does...Tell that to Jason David.

And yeah, speed isn't *everything* but it's pretty important as long as a receiver isn't awful in every other aspect of the game. You can't defend it.Why so many successful WRs with 4.5 type speed? Why are so few of the top tier WRs 4.2-4.3 burner types? Important maybe, but fairly overrated.

Or maybe Wayne is benefitting from coverages being rolled his way? Now, I'm not necessarily sayign that's the case because I haven't observed it. But superior "production" doesn't necessarily = outperforming. Actually for the last year or so, most coverages have been rolled toward Wayne. He is younger, faster and at this point in his career, a bigger playmaker.

Before this injury, I didn't really get the sense that Harrison was out of his "prime"? How was he any different?He's still got all the intangibles and whatnot, but he's been slowing down, also Wayne has been getting steadily better and is now the man in Indy. It's just father time, you can't be the best forever.

Peyton's been throwing more picks--but he's I wouldn't say he's playing like ****. He's still fairly accurate, and he's had to force a lot of things because of the nature of their system--Wayne not being able to pick up the slack of Harrison being gone points more out to me about his lack of being a true #1 than anything.Wayne has picked up the slack just fine. Averaging 6.6 catches and 107 yards a game is about as good of production for a WR as you can ask for over a six game stretch. That's the kind of production that would produce a 100 catch, 1600 yard type season. How is that not picking up the slack?

Look, if Wayne was as good as you say, he should be able to blow open games on his own (meaning without Harrison, because as bad as the stat sheet for Manning look he's still getting him the ball.) I don't see it. He's not dominant enough in any aspect of the game for me to call him a true #1 game breaker.When has Harrison blown games open? In fact, how many WRs in the NFL are gamebreaking #1 types?

Boldin
TO
Moss
Smith

Galloway and Chambers on the other hand, can. Galloway blows past corners with speed and Chambers can basically do it all--down the field, jump balls, and occasionally after the catch. Peyton Manning on his worst day is probably 1000x better than anyone these guys have had to work with their entire careers.So Peyton on his 6 pick catastrophy is 1000x better than Daunte Culpepper? You seem obsessed with speed, Chambers drops a ton of balls, looks to me like he lets down his QB almost as much as his QB lets him down...

[SBbound49ers]

Remember 2005 when his entire line went down and he still led them to a 13-5 record?

No.........

Who got injured? Matt Light did but their current RT Nick Kazur played pretty well. I dont remember any other injuries.


Also, Reggie Wayne is a solid #1. Hes always wide open and is a good all around WR. Hes got speed, reliable hands, runs good routes and he catches alot of TDs. Hes been great this year in the absence of Harrison.

[Brian Jennings]

They were down multiple starters for a long stretch and Brady was getting the crap beaten out of him.

[SBbound49ers]

Rexi, you are extremely confused on Chambers. He shows all the tools but he cant put it all together. Hes like Antonio Bryant in that regard, a ton of talent but too inconsistent.

[Brian Jennings]

But he's really really fast.

[Trap_Star]

Corey Bradord is fast too. put him in the HOF. :hoppy:

[Rexi]

Inflated or not, when he has a single season that is almost as much as another guy's career, saying that just make you look plain silly.Saying what? I'm just saying that Berrian is a better deep threat than Holt.

Tell that to Jason David.Well yeah, Jason David is an awful cover II corner. I'm just saying that you don't really see him utterly dominating the best of the best with speed or freakish athleticism. Don't get me wrong--I think he's a really good player and a legit 1,000 yd guy--but I'm convinced that some of it is playing with two of the league's best (Manning, Harrison) and the Colts system.

Why so many successful WRs with 4.5 type speed? Why are so few of the top tier WRs 4.2-4.3 burner types? Important maybe, but fairly overrated.Almost every top-tier receiver has really good speed.

Owens, Moss, Chambers, Williams, Smith, Burress, Galloway, Chad Johnson, Andre Johnson, and even Harrison all can flat-out fly at times. It's rare to see a guy like Boldin reach that #1 status while not possessing that explosive speed element.

Actually for the last year or so, most coverages have been rolled toward Wayne. He is younger, faster and at this point in his career, a bigger playmaker.
Any source for this? Like I said, I haven't actually had a chance to observe the coverages in Inday lately myself, so I'd be surpirsed if this was actually the case.
He's still got all the intangibles and whatnot, but he's been slowing down, also Wayne has been getting steadily better and is now the man in Indy. It's just father time, you can't be the best forever.
I haven't seen the "slowing down" you're speaking of in Harrison. He's still looked like the same player to me...
Wayne has picked up the slack just fine. Averaging 6.6 catches and 107 yards a game is about as good of production for a WR as you can ask for over a six game stretch. That's the kind of production that would produce a 100 catch, 1600 yard type season. How is that not picking up the slack?But production isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about being a catalyst--making big plays. Going up over a corner for a TD...a great run after the catch...something like that. This is his time to step out of Harrison's shadow and show what he can do, and he really hasn't done it IMO. Yeah he's filled in in his traditional role fine, but he really hasn't "stepped it up" IMO.

Burress was once in the type of situation in Pittsburgh, and he's done all the things I just mentioned successfully. He's proven himself as one of the top receivers in the game and has made everyone forget that he was once thought of as a #2 to Hines Ward. Maybe Wayne could do the same given an opportunity on his own, but I don't see that same untapped potential Burress had in him.

When has Harrison blown games open? In fact, how many WRs in the NFL are gamebreaking #1 types?Harrison lacks the true playmaking mentality the all-time greats like Rice, Owens, Moss have/had...and yet he's also great despite that. The route running, hands, body control, and sepraration he gets makes him a huge threat--How good he is has been re-affimred by how much the Colts have struggled without him. That offense is just not the same at all, and I think he's much more important to them overall than Wayne is.

Boldin
TO
Moss
SmithMy opinion?
Add Burress, Roy Williams, Chambers, Galloway, Chad Johnson, along with Harrison to that list.


So Peyton on his 6 pick catastrophy is 1000x better than Daunte Culpepper? You seem obsessed with speed, Chambers drops a ton of balls, looks to me like he lets down his QB almost as much as his QB lets him down...Dude he played with Culpepper for what? Like 4-5 games last year? And even then Culpepper was nothing like he was pre-torn up knee/Moss leaving.

As for Chambers hands...well Owens drops balls too. So does just about every reciever. I'd like to see how many of them were actual drops as well, and not just ****ty passes he didn't catch and shouldn't be blamed for...

[KiNgNoThInG]

**** whats with the haters? I`m a diehard niners fan i sgtill give manning his props hes the only true field general in the game today and hes the only 1 since unitas.

[Rexi]

Rexi, you are extremely confused on Chambers. He shows all the tools but he cant put it all together. Hes like Antonio Bryant in that regard, a ton of talent but too inconsistent.

Man, I don't get that comparison at all. Bryant was an underachiever, but at best he's still more of a #2 guy. Chambers has more talent in his little finger than Bryant has in his entire body.

[Brian Jennings]

I love how you change the terms of the argument once I show you're wrong.

You can believe whatever you want, believe pigs fly for all I care.

[Brian Jennings]

Without an elite supporting cast, you mean.

[Rexi]

I love how you change the terms of the argument once I show you're wrong.

You can believe whatever you want, believe pigs fly for all I care.
"Changing the terms of the argument"? Whatever, dude....I like most of what you have to say. I get a kick out of a lot of your threads in fact. We share the same views on many things i think.

You were the one who picked the fight with me. I merely disagreed with you on a small detail in your post (Wayne being a top 10 reciever, in fact I don't think you were all that far off--I didn't think it would be that big of a deal) and then you started throwing the personal attacks around and getting pissy.

[Sac-King_916]

I agree that Brady does have one of the best O-lines this year, but Manning has had that blessing through his entire career. He has only been sacked once a game through a ten year career. Don't tell me it's a quick release either. He has all day to get his happy feet going. Take a look at Brady's career stats compared to Manning's career stats. Peyton does have an edge at least for a few seasons in touchdown passes, but completion percentage, quarterback rating, etc. are almost identical. We're talking just offensive stats, not defensive. The only real difference is that Brady has done it with players that don't come close to comparing to the team that Manning has around him. At least until this year anyway. Peyton can't handle pressure, and his post season stats will show you that. Brady's numbers get even better in the post season. He's just much more of a poised quarterback. He's the first guy that you could compare to Montana.


Agreed.

[49erPhil]

Reggie Wayne a top 10 WR? Eh, don't think so...He's more of a complementary guy IMO...

John Taylor II he is not.

Reggie Wayne for the last three seasons (if you include this one) has had better statistics than Marvin Harrison. Reggie Wayne, other than maybe Joseph Addai, is the biggest threat the Colts have. He has been for at least two years. It's showing up even more now that Brandon Stokely isn't there anymore.

[Rexi]

Reggie Wayne for the last three seasons (if you include this one) has had better statistics than Marvin Harrison. Reggie Wayne, other than maybe Joseph Addai, is the biggest threat the Colts have. He has been for at least two years. It's showing up even more now that Brandon Stokely isn't there anymore.
I don't buy it...Harrison being out has shown me how much that Colts offense depends on his mere presence alone. Wayne is a very good receiver--don't get me wrong--I just have a feeling he benefits a lot from having one of the top receivers of this era drawing attention away from him. I think when you look at everything he does well, and then compare that to Wayne--it's not really all that close.

Wayne's good, but he's no Marvin Harrison.

[SBbound49ers]

Man, I don't get that comparison at all. Bryant was an underachiever, but at best he's still more of a #2 guy. Chambers has more talent in his little finger than Bryant has in his entire body.

The only thing I was comparing them on was the fact that they have talent to be #1's but neither guy could hold that spot.

Bryant was a good #1 in CLE, now not a single team wants him.

Chambers had some nice years and one very good year but he hasnt put it together yet either. His drops and miscuses have really held him back.

They're both underachievers, thats all.

[badass316]

You're digging up pics, yet I'm the one who scours? :thinking: Right.

Nah, since you didn't comprehend what I said, I'll say it again. I saw it in once in one of the threads I happened to have been reading. You probably don't know what scour means, since you didn't comprehend what I said. I responded the way I did because when you saw the image you immediately knew whose it was... I don't know about you but that means that a person like that has obviously been scouring these MBs. It also doesn't help that I already know you do... since... Ive seen you do it. If someone posted some forum pic of something, I probably wouldn't even begin to imagine where it came from, because I don't make it my business to know. You on the other hand make it yours, but hey thats cool though... whatever floats your boat.


EDIT: Take a chill pill, bro. You get way too defensive. Lol.

I told you this already. I have no problem with brady (In fact I've already told you that I enjoy watching what he's doing this season), but if your going to knock on Manning just to prove how great brady has been this year then I would have to say something. If I need a chill pill then I suggest you take some more English classes to further educate yourself on how to read and comprehend facts first before formulating your own conclusions. I seem defensive because the way you go about your points irritates me (It also doesn't help that I know you have an infatuation with a certain QB who happens to play for the team Manning beat the previous year). I guess I can't help but say something if I see someone just swinging on someones sac and likes to neglect looking at all the facts before spouting garbage. Frankly you still have me confused, I can't really put my finger if you hate Manning that much or just love Brady that much, only time will tell I guess.

[badass316]

Its thier Oline, but then again you have to watch the games to realize that.

Some of the Manning haters can't don't see that though :laugh:

[Sac-King_916]

Nah, since you didn't comprehend what I said, I'll say it again. I saw it in once in one of the threads I happened to have been reading. You probably don't know what scour means, since you didn't comprehend what I said. I responded the way I did because when you saw the image you immediately knew whose it was... I don't know about you but that means that a person like that has obviously been scouring these MBs. It also doesn't help that I already know you do... since... Ive seen you do it. If someone posted some forum pic of something, I probably wouldn't even begin to imagine where it came from, because I don't make it my business to know. You on the other hand make it yours, but hey thats cool though... whatever floats your boat.

:laugh: It actually said it was Maj's pic when i quoted you, I've never seen the pic before.



I told you this already. I have no problem with brady (In fact I've already told you that I enjoy watching what he's doing this season), but if your going to knock on Manning just to prove how great brady has been this year then I would have to say something. If I need a chill pill then I suggest you take some more English classes to further educate yourself on how to read and comprehend facts first before formulating your own conclusions. I seem defensive because the way you go about your points irritates me (It also
:wacko: I don't hate Manning, in fact I like Manning and this I've said before. I wasn't trying to knock Manning, I was simply stating my opinion as to why I believe Tom Brady is a better QB then Peyton Manning. If that for some reason irritates you, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

[Rexi]

The only thing I was comparing them on was the fact that they have talent to be #1's but neither guy could hold that spot.

Bryant was a good #1 in CLE, now not a single team wants him.

Chambers had some nice years and one very good year but he hasnt put it together yet either. His drops and miscuses have really held him back.

They're both underachievers, thats all.

Yeah, but Chambers has MUCH more talent than Bryant ever had. I don't really think Bryant was ever anything "too special." A very solid #2? Yes...But the dude just isn't a legitimate #1 receiver in this league.

Chris Chambers on the other hand, has talent off the charts. Ridiculously athletic. I think he has "put it all together" myself...And yeah, I guess he's had his problems with drops but that's really the only knock the guy has on him. The only thing that can truly stop him is his own QB...

...And guess what? It's been happening to him his whole career, and continues to this day, basically.

[Rexi]

who cares about talent if you don't produce? or your so inconsistent that your being compared to a guy sitting on his couch like me and you?Of course, the consistency of his "production" is dependent on the consistency of his QB's...And they've been awful players, by and large.

And I wasn't comparing him to Bryant. I disagree with that comparison wholeheartedly, actually.

[badass316]

:laugh: It actually said it was Maj's pic when i quoted you, I've never seen the pic before.

Thats nice.


:wacko: I don't hate Manning, in fact I like Manning and this I've said before. I wasn't trying to knock Manning, I was simply stating my opinion as to why I believe Tom Brady is a better QB then Peyton Manning.

You may have liked him before this season but everything I've heard from your mouth about him this season has shown me no reason to believe otherwise. I've actually heard the word "trash" more than "like."


If that for some reason irritates you, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

:laugh:

Wow... you really do have a problem of comprehension, where exactly did I say I was irritated by you thinking Brady is better than Manning? I could care less what you think. I think I'll end it here since I feel like I'm arguing with a child.

[Sac-King_916]

Thats nice.



You may have liked him before this season but everything I've heard from your mouth about him this season has shown me no reason to believe otherwise. I've actually heard the word "trash" more than "like."



:laugh:

Wow... you really do have a problem of comprehension, where exactly did I say I was irritated by you thinking Brady is better than Manning? I could care less what you think. I think I'll end it here since I feel like I'm arguing with a child.

:tumbleweed:

[49erPhil]

I don't buy it...Harrison being out has shown me how much that Colts offense depends on his mere presence alone. Wayne is a very good receiver--don't get me wrong--I just have a feeling he benefits a lot from having one of the top receivers of this era drawing attention away from him. I think when you look at everything he does well, and then compare that to Wayne--it's not really all that close.

Wayne's good, but he's no Marvin Harrison.

You have to look at the great stats that Wayne has put up even though Harrison has been injured. He has been double team basically every game and is still putting up great numbers. The problem with the colts offense hasn't been so much that Harrison's been out, but that their offensive line has been banged up. When teams get pressure on Peyton Manning he chokes. In the last three games he's thrown eight interceptions due to not being used to that kind of pressure. That's not because of Harrison being gone. Look at the stats for the last three years you'll see better results from Wayne than what you've had from Harrison.

[Rexi]

You have to look at the great stats that Wayne has put up even though Harrison has been injured. He has been double team basically every game and is still putting up great numbers. The problem with the colts offense hasn't been so much that Harrison's been out, but that their offensive line has been banged up. When teams get pressure on Peyton Manning he chokes. In the last three games he's thrown eight interceptions due to not being used to that kind of pressure. That's not because of Harrison being gone. Look at the stats for the last three years you'll see better results from Wayne than what you've had from Harrison.

OH THE STATS??? REALLY??? WOW.....NO ONE ON THIS BOARD HAS EVER TOLD ME TO LOOK AT THOSE BEFORE!!!!!111

:thud: :mouthclosed: