49er 2008 Draft

[49erkezarguy]

This should be the 49ers simplest draft ever. Nolan once said this and I couldn't agree more especially going into this years draft. Forget needs and positions, just take the best available FOOTBALL players available and stay away from projects and potential and we will do extremely well.

This same formula doesn't necessarily apply to FA's. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Brian Jennings]

We need to take at least a couple project players. We need MOAR experiments.

[mascott]

This should be the 49ers simplest draft ever. Nolan once said this and I couldn't agree more especially going into this years draft. Forget needs and positions, just take the best available FOOTBALL players available and stay away from projects and potential and we will do extremely well.

This same formula doesn't necessarily apply to FA's. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.



...and boy it's working so far....NOT!!! thats why we need a real HC not just some moron in a suit trying to look smart :stooges:

[49erkezarguy]

...and boy it's working so far....NOT!!! thats why we need a real HC not just some moron in a suit trying to look smart :stooges:
You had better get your facts straight. Nolan et al have done a fine job at drafting, picking FA's, and cutting the deadwood while being fiscally responsible and we're giong to have over $30 million to play with this upcoming season.
Just check our our draft picks over the last few years compared to other teams and you'll see that we've done very well. Everyone talks about taking Alex Smith with our #1 in the draft pick. You must remember that wasn't a good year to have that pick and although Nolan wanted to trade out of it there were no takers. Had he not taken Smith or Rodgers there would have been a tremendous outcry for his head right then.
I will agree with you that Nolan has made some poor gameday decisions and that's one of the big reasons that we need a GM and Nolan should concentrate on football only!!

[youngbull]

if nolan is so good in front office, why does everyone want him to stick to coaching if hes bad at that??? get him to restructure out of head coach or cut him loose. and use him where he is of use.

[SB49er4life]

I'm pretty sure Nolan's draft priorities have always been BPA 1st, Need 2nd.

Whatever anyone wants to say about taking Alex Smith at #1, we were in dire need of a QB, and they had him rated as their highest player at the time.

The next 1st round picks -Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Patrick Willis and Joe Staley- were all the same story, I believe. It was imperative that Alex Smith be given a playmaker and go-to guy in the passing game, and Vernon Davis was rated much higher than any of the WR's in the draft that year.

I think this year we go BPA, again, unless it's a TE, RB, QB, or CB we're talking about.

[mascott]

You had better get your facts straight. Nolan et al have done a fine job at drafting, picking FA's, and cutting the deadwood while being fiscally responsible and we're giong to have over $30 million to play with this upcoming season.
Just check our our draft picks over the last few years compared to other teams and you'll see that we've done very well. Everyone talks about taking Alex Smith with our #1 in the draft pick. You must remember that wasn't a good year to have that pick and although Nolan wanted to trade out of it there were no takers. Had he not taken Smith or Rodgers there would have been a tremendous outcry for his head right then.
I will agree with you that Nolan has made some poor gameday decisions and that's one of the big reasons that we need a GM and Nolan should concentrate on football only!!



so when it comes time to pick your telling me if it's between a rb or a linemen (definsive or offensive it dosn't matter we need both) you'd take the rb if he was the bpa insted of a linemen (which is what we need) ???

[49erkezarguy]

so when it comes time to pick your telling me if it's between a rb or a linemen (definsive or offensive it dosn't matter we need both) you'd take the rb if he was the bpa insted of a linemen (which is what we need) ???
Yes. As a matter of fact I do think we need a RB very badly. Gore is not built to carry the rock for 25+ times a game for 16 games as his history clearly shows. We would do very well with RB by committee with 2 good RB's spelling each other or even being in the same backfield at the same time.
If we continue to use Gore as we have his shelf life in the NFL won't last much longer and neither Gore nor we fans will ever see him in a 49er uniform in a playoff game.
BTW Hicks is old and we even placed him on waivers and there were no takers. M-Rob was another one of those experiments that's never going to pay off. He'd be lucky to be a 3rd stringer and most probably he should be gone.
How would you like to have Adrian Peterson & Gore in the same backfield?
I'm not recommending a RB but I won't back off from my position of BPA either and I mean that throughout the entire draft.
Fill specific holes with FA's and trades after that.

[49erkezarguy]

I'm pretty sure Nolan's draft priorities have always been BPA 1st, Need 2nd.

Whatever anyone wants to say about taking Alex Smith at #1, we were in dire need of a QB, and they had him rated as their highest player at the time.

The next 1st round picks -Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Patrick Willis and Joe Staley- were all the same story, I believe. It was imperative that Alex Smith be given a playmaker and go-to guy in the passing game, and Vernon Davis was rated much higher than any of the WR's in the draft that year.

I think this year we go BPA, again, unless it's a TE, RB, QB, or CB we're talking about.
The only Semi-mistake was using our 1st round, 6th overall pick on a TE especially when we had Eric Johnson (a Pro Bowler, although injury prone still on our roster) but that was not a glaring loss either as what is it like 40% or so of 1st round picks end up in the dumpster and we've received about a year and 1/2 from VD starting (injuries) and he'll start next year.
Let's face it VD is good but everyone has overhyped the guy.

[KingRat]

You had better get your facts straight. Nolan et al have done a fine job at drafting, picking FA's, and cutting the deadwood while being fiscally responsible and we're giong to have over $30 million to play with this upcoming season.
Just check our our draft picks over the last few years compared to other teams and you'll see that we've done very well. Everyone talks about taking Alex Smith with our #1 in the draft pick. You must remember that wasn't a good year to have that pick and although Nolan wanted to trade out of it there were no takers. Had he not taken Smith or Rodgers there would have been a tremendous outcry for his head right then.
I will agree with you that Nolan has made some poor gameday decisions and that's one of the big reasons that we need a GM and Nolan should concentrate on football only!!

Nolan had at least 3 offers, he just said he wasn't offered enough. What the offers were that he turned down have never been posted...that I know of:shades:

[SB49er4life]

The only Semi-mistake was using our 1st round, 6th overall pick on a TE especially when we had Eric Johnson (a Pro Bowler, although injury prone still on our roster) but that was not a glaring loss either as what is it like 40% or so of 1st round picks end up in the dumpster and we've received about a year and 1/2 from VD starting (injuries) and he'll start next year.
Let's face it VD is good but everyone has overhyped the guy.

Well... the offense this year has been a disaster, and everyone has looked awful in it, so I think it's too early to come to a verdict on Vernon Davis. He is asked to do all the wrong things, like block far too often, and the QB' along with the coaches have done a poor job of featuring him and getting him the ball in a postion to make plays.

But that's besides the fact...

Going into that 2006 draft, the offense, and passing game in particular, was an embarrassment. The logic behind that was not because TE was of particular interest, but because he was far and away the best receiving weapon coming out that year, and his athleticism offered the kinda big play capability you typically only see from top flight WR's.

The OL had made some nice additions and draft picks the last couple years, like Jennings, Allen, Heitman, Bass and Snyder, so OL wasn't viewed as a particular problem.

If we went defense 1st in that draft, it would have been a slap in the face to Alex Smith, and it also would have given us an indication that Nolan was all over the place and didn't really have much of a plan, just taking scattered players here and there.

It would be foolish to draft a QB with your #1 over-all pick the year before, watch him have maybe the worst rookie year ever, and then do nothing to help him out.

Even so, Eric Johnson had been an injury mess the last few years, and his contract was running out.

Davis is hyped in the same sense that pretty much 95% of all rookies get overhyped; they are not expected to be at their full potential in their first couple seasons.

[mascott]

Yes. As a matter of fact I do think we need a RB very badly. Gore is not built to carry the rock for 25+ times a game for 16 games as his history clearly shows. We would do very well with RB by committee with 2 good RB's spelling each other or even being in the same backfield at the same time.
If we continue to use Gore as we have his shelf life in the NFL won't last much longer and neither Gore nor we fans will ever see him in a 49er uniform in a playoff game.
BTW Hicks is old and we even placed him on waivers and there were no takers. M-Rob was another one of those experiments that's never going to pay off. He'd be lucky to be a 3rd stringer and most probably he should be gone.
How would you like to have Adrian Peterson & Gore in the same backfield?
I'm not recommending a RB but I won't back off from my position of BPA either and I mean that throughout the entire draft.
Fill specific holes with FA's and trades after that.

all good points there. i was waiting to see if you minchened "trades" or not before i said something, i'm a big believer in trades myself.


i admit you made a beliver out of me.

[49ersforlife5x]

Bottom line: Fire Nolan. He's a weasel who knows nothing about football. I don't think he knows enough to be a position coach in the Nfl, nevermind a co-ordinator or head coach. I've seen the game footage of him back as the Ravens D.C., Ray Lewis basically had to do his job for him.
And about those draft choices:
#1 Smith-----Bust, has a kindergarten arm
#33 Baas-----Bust, completely useless

#6 Davis-----Lazy mouth piece with stone hands who can't stay healthy
Third round pick Brandon Williams--- complete bust/waste of pick

[SB49er4life]

Bottom line: Fire Nolan. He's a weasel who knows nothing about football. I don't think he knows enough to be a position coach in the Nfl, nevermind a co-ordinator or head coach. I've seen the game footage of him back as the Ravens D.C., Ray Lewis basically had to do his job for him.
And about those draft choices:
#1 Smith-----Bust, has a kindergarten arm
#33 Baas-----Bust, completely useless

#6 Davis-----Lazy mouth piece with stone hands who can't stay healthy
Third round pick Brandon Williams--- complete bust/waste of pick

The dumbest post I've read here all day.

If you're gonna waste everyone's time with garbage, at the very least make relevant to the topic at hand.

[49erkezarguy]

Well... the offense this year has been a disaster, and everyone has looked awful in it, so I think it's too early to come to a verdict on Vernon Davis. He is asked to do all the wrong things, like Davis is hyped in the same sense that pretty much 95% of all rookies get overhyped; they are not expected to be at their full potential in their first couple seasons.

He's NOT a rookie anymore. He's dropped MANY catchable passes and fumbled quite a bit. He's offsides a couple of times practically every game which is completely inexcusable.
While I have some problems with prioritizing positions, FB & TE are the least important IMHO in an offense and neither really deserves a really high end #1 draft choice let alone #6 overall. You and others can cite exceptions and that's exactly what they are exceptions. Remember also that we had a Pro Bowl TE still under contract on the team (albeit often injured) and at least 2 other servicable TE's at the time that VD was drafted.

[yayareawarrior]

I thought the pick of joe cohen wasn't smart

[SB49er4life]

He's NOT a rookie anymore. He's dropped MANY catchable passes and fumbled quite a bit. He's offsides a couple of times practically every game which is completely inexcusable.
While I have some problems with prioritizing positions, FB & TE are the least important IMHO in an offense and neither really deserves a really high end #1 draft choice let alone #6 overall. You and others can cite exceptions and that's exactly what they are exceptions. Remember also that we had a Pro Bowl TE still under contract on the team (albeit often injured) and at least 2 other servicable TE's at the time that VD was drafted.

Do you just start threads to bash Vernon Davis for no reason ? What is this personal vendetta you have against him ? Seriously, I thought this was supposed to be about the 2008 draft.

I'll say this as politely as possible: calling ANY position in an offense, let alone the TE position, where they are in virtually every play and have a wide array of different tasks to perform, is just a foolish statement.

Tell the Giants, Chargers, Chiefs, Patriots, Browns and Cowboys - all with the exception of KC among the leagues dominant offenses - that the TE position is the least important position on their offenses.

With athletes today, the TE position is not what it was 20 years ago where they were just basically an extended tackle that would catch a 4 yd pass every here and there. It's 2008, and some of the most dangerous offensive players and biggest difference makers are TE's.

Yes, Eric Johnson was a Pro-Bowl TE... on an offense that force-fed him the ball because there weren't many other people to throw to who were worth a ****. He also was injury prone, maxed out his potential, and had a contract running out the next year.

It's really not even a matter of what you or I consider important; it's a matter of Alex Smith was in need of a big playmaker to the throw to, and Vernon Davis was the biggest offensive playmaker through the air available in that draft, whether you're talking about TE or WR.

[49erkezarguy]

Do you just start threads to bash Vernon Davis for no reason ? What is this personal vendetta you have against him ? Seriously, I thought this was supposed to be about the 2008 draft.

I'll say this as politely as possible: calling ANY position in an offense, let alone the TE position, where they are in virtually every play and have a wide array of different tasks to perform, is just a foolish statement.

Tell the Giants, Chargers, Chiefs, Patriots, Browns and Cowboys - all with the exception of KC among the leagues dominant offenses - that the TE position is the least important position on their offenses.

With athletes today, the TE position is not what it was 20 years ago where they were just basically an extended tackle that would catch a 4 yd pass every here and there. It's 2008, and some of the most dangerous offensive players and biggest difference makers are TE's.

Yes, Eric Johnson was a Pro-Bowl TE... on an offense that force-fed him the ball because there weren't many other people to throw to who were worth a ****. He also was injury prone, maxed out his potential, and had a contract running out the next year.

It's really not even a matter of what you or I consider important; it's a matter of Alex Smith was in need of a big playmaker to the throw to, and Vernon Davis was the biggest offensive playmaker through the air available in that draft, whether you're talking about TE or WR.

Well where exactly have all these big plays that VD was to make gone? I certainl;y haven't seen them. All I've seen for 2 years are his antics, lack of humility, dropped passes, fumbles, stupid penalties practically every game and injuries, other than that he's done just great.

He is good but I think we could have done a helluva lot better by taking another position player with that pick. We'll never know. That's just my take on taking VD as the 6th overall pick in that draft and especially given our needs at that time. We can just agree to disagree.

I still stand by my statement that the 2 least improtant starting positions on a football team are FB & TE. You make a fair case but I disagree. Mant teams often go empty backfield or just have a single back. Almost all teams today have many plays and schemes that call fo no TE at all but rather 4 or even 5 WR's.

You probably don't even know where the TE position came from. There used to be a QB, 2 halfbacks, and a fullback on all teams. In the evolution of football they took the 2ns halfback out of the backfield and made him a TE.
Many of the RB by committee teams today also use 2 RB's and no FB at all.
I think there are a few teams out there now that have no FB position on their team at all but I'm not totally sure and I can't name the teams right now.

[SB49er4life]

Well where exactly have all these big plays that VD was to make gone? I certainl;y haven't seen them. All I've seen for 2 years are his antics, lack of humility, dropped passes, fumbles, stupid penalties practically every game and injuries, other than that he's done just great.

He is good but I think we could have done a helluva lot better by taking another position player with that pick. We'll never know. That's just my take on taking VD as the 6th overall pick in that draft and especially given our needs at that time. We can just agree to disagree.

I still stand by my statement that the 2 least improtant starting positions on a football team are FB & TE. You make a fair case but I disagree. Mant teams often go empty backfield or just have a single back. Almost all teams today have many plays and schemes that call fo no TE at all but rather 4 or even 5 WR's.

You probably don't even know where the TE position came from. There used to be a QB, 2 halfbacks, and a fullback on all teams. In the evolution of football they took the 2ns halfback out of the backfield and made him a TE.
Many of the RB by committee teams today also use 2 RB's and no FB at all.
I think there are a few teams out there now that have no FB position on their team at all but I'm not totally sure and I can't name the teams right now.

Well, I probably haven't around long enough to know where the TE position originated, so I will respectfully take your word on this one.

But since you bring that up, it brings up another point: the evolution of the game. If I remember correctly from what I've read and seen about football way before my time, QB's were rarely even asked to throw the ball, so by your logic, QB's and WR's were "less important" than your OL, FB, and RB's, because they weren't involved a great deal in generating yards.

You know, I was actually looking at the complete 2006 draft earlier today, by chance, and I was wondering who would have actually made more sense to take than Davis at #6, over-all. The only 2 people that made sense were Haloti Ngata, as Niko Ghatti suggested, and Kamerion Wimbley.

Well, NT was a big need, but it jsut simply wasn't the BIGGEST need when you factored in Alex Smith, the money invested in him, and complete lack of talent on offense.

Kamerion Wimbley is a good player, but waaaaay too much of a reach at #6, and besides, we nabbed Manny Lawson at #22, who may end up being even better.

The next several picks were S's, Matt Leinart, OL or LB's.

No problem at all thinking we could have done better at #6, but I'm curious if you had anyone in mind at all.

There are teams that don't give a roster spot to a true FB, but a FB isn't used nearly in the same manner as a TE.

Even the teams you say use 4-5 WR sets don't do it THAT often, and a lot of times, a TE is split out wide as the 4th/5th receiver. The teams that do this the MOST often, namely New England and Indianapolis, both have EXCELLENT TE's in Ben Watson and Dallas Clark.

Payton Manning was quoted as saying a couple years ago that when Dallas Clark went out with a new injury that he thought "the season was over".

I think what you may not be getting is the reason Davis was taken at #6, and the reasoning behind my points are that the elite TE's are used much like #1 WR's these days, because the game has evolved.

If TE's were used how they were in the past, I'd agree with you completely, but there's more to the position now than just the name attached to it.

Anyways, that's where I'm coming from. Have a merry Christmas and hopefully we can put aside any past differences we may have had.

[49erkezarguy]

Well, I probably haven't around long enough to know where the TE position originated, so I will respectfully take your word on this one.

But since you bring that up, it brings up another point: the evolution of the game. If I remember correctly from what I've read and seen about football way before my time, QB's were rarely even asked to throw the ball, so by your logic, QB's and WR's were "less important" than your OL, FB, and RB's, because they weren't involved a great deal in generating yards.

You know, I was actually looking at the complete 2006 draft earlier today, by chance, and I was wondering who would have actually made more sense to take than Davis at #6, over-all. The only 2 people that made sense were Haloti Ngata, as Niko Ghatti suggested, and Kamerion Wimbley.

Well, NT was a big need, but it jsut simply wasn't the BIGGEST need when you factored in Alex Smith, the money invested in him, and complete lack of talent on offense.

Kamerion Wimbley is a good player, but waaaaay too much of a reach at #6, and besides, we nabbed Manny Lawson at #22, who may end up being even better.

The next several picks were S's, Matt Leinart, OL or LB's.

No problem at all thinking we could have done better at #6, but I'm curious if you had anyone in mind at all.

There are teams that don't give a roster spot to a true FB, but a FB isn't used nearly in the same manner as a TE.

Even the teams you say use 4-5 WR sets don't do it THAT often, and a lot of times, a TE is split out wide as the 4th/5th receiver. The teams that do this the MOST often, namely New England and Indianapolis, both have EXCELLENT TE's in Ben Watson and Dallas Clark.

Payton Manning was quoted as saying a couple years ago that when Dallas Clark went out with a new injury that he thought "the season was over".

I think what you may not be getting is the reason Davis was taken at #6, and the reasoning behind my points are that the elite TE's are used much like #1 WR's these days, because the game has evolved.

If TE's were used how they were in the past, I'd agree with you completely, but there's more to the position now than just the name attached to it.

Anyways, that's where I'm coming from. Have a merry Christmas and hopefully we can put aside any past differences we may have had.

You made excellent points, did fine research on that draft and the other possible picks that we could have made, and I too want to wish you a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.