Quentin Groves - Scouting Profile

[SB49er4life]

If you still might not think that Quentin Groves is worth trading up for, read this:


Drawing comparisons to Dallas' DeMarcus Ware, Groves will probably shift to outside linebacker in the professional ranks. He received a crash course at that position late in his senior campaign and even earned a start at left outside linebacker in the Tennessee Tech game. With his tall, muscular physique, excellent speed, outstanding change of direction agility and superb body control as a pass rusher, NFL quarterbacks will soon have to contend with one of the most disruptive backfield penetrators in the 2008 NFL Draft.

Analysis

Positives: Relentless pass rusher who compensates for a lack of size and bulk with tremendous suddenness coming off the snap...Shows the lateral range and change of direction agility needed to quickly adapt to playing linebacker at the next level...Closes with a sharp burst and has good angle concept slashing into the backfield through inside gaps...Shows very good balance and body control on the pass rush and shows proper knee bend to consistently turn the corner...Has outstanding foot quickness and stays low in his pads to easily avoid the slower blockers...Shows good alertness on the field, diagnosing the play quickly, showing urgency closing on the ball...Shows very good flexibility moving down the line and likes to get involved in downfield action...Plays with leverage, doing a very good job of extending his long arms...Plays with nice effort and toughness (will wear down later in games due to constantly battling with blockers much bigger than him at the X's and is better served playing off the line)...Self-starter who is a hard worker in the training room and has become a respected and vocal leader in the locker room...Shows outstanding suddenness and acceleration off the snap and to shoot gaps and disrupt the backfield...Displays good field awareness to diagnose plays and quickly track the ball......Has good ball location instincts and is quick to diagnose the plays, playing with high energy to close on the ball...Has the flexibility to play with leverage and even though he struggles at the point to split double teams, he is best when tracking the ball on the move...When a blocker tries to reach him, he can generate a strong hand punch and is quick to reset and separate from blockers (needs to keep his man's mitts off his jersey, though)...Has the lateral range to slide and avoid in-line trouble (struggles to take on and shed, however)...Needs to be more consistent using his lateral moves, but he is able to get down the line of scrimmage and close suddenly from the back side...Moves well to contain the toss sweep and is very quick to counter and change direction...Explosive wrap-up tackler who delivers pop on contact, doing a nice job of attacking the runner's outside leg to impede the ballcarrier's forward progress...Fun to watch making tackles in the open field, as he willingly hurls his body at the opponent...Has the athletic agility to adjust and finish on his own in space.....Has the ability to consistently pressure the pocket and uses his hands well to gain position...Even though he can be controlled by offensive linemen when he's reached, he is active with his hands, showing an explosive pop to separate and shed...Has a very impressive wing span and uses it well to yank smaller blockers and ball carriers to the ground...Active with his hands, especially when trying to rip and pull...Has the short area balance to turn the corner and chase down the play on the move...With his great forward burst, he closes in a flash, wrapping and exploding into the quarterback

Sounds every bit the part of a prime-time playmaker at OLB.

Compares To: DeMARCUS WARE-Dallas...Much like the Chargers' Shawne Merriman and Ware, Groves has that explosive quickness and outstanding suddenness to wreak havoc in the backfield. He is a perfect fit for a hybrid outside linebacker/rush end position in a 3-4 defensive scheme and like Merriman and Ware, he could thrive if allowed to play in a stand-up position. He was having a banner senior campaign before dislocating several toes, but with his balance and body control, along with lateral movement, he should have no problems adjusting to playing off the line. With so much emphasis on pressuring the pocket and getting to the quarterback in the NFL, there is no other player in this draft that can match Groves' pass rushing ability.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/quentin-groves?id=240

Dear God, please let this guy fall to us.

I know there was a similar posting of this before, but a few spots I wanted to point out.

[majesstik1]

He started at SLB in another televised game, too. I don't remember what game right now, it's in one of the weekly observation threads though. He looked a bit confused in the drop, but did well when the play was in front of him.

He's every bit the elite pass rusher any of the prospect of the last few years are. Unfortunately for him, he got hurt, and didn't get to finish his career strong. He should have ended his college career with around 30 sacks total.

[SB49er4life]

He started at SLB in another televised game, too. I don't remember what game right now, it's in one of the weekly observation threads though. He looked a bit confused in the drop, but did well when the play was in front of him.

He's every bit the elite pass rusher any of the prospect of the last few years are. Unfortunately for him, he got hurt, and didn't get to finish his career strong. He should have ended his college career with around 30 sacks total.

LoL, I think it's only fair to expect SOME kind of a flaw when he switches from a position he's played his entire life to LB for a game, don't ya think ?

Man, there are some good OL/WR/NT's we can get in round 2 thru 4, but there is no other player I'd love to have in the 1st round than this guy. Probably even more so than Vernon Gholston or Chris Long. YES, I said it.

With scouts being super butt-tight about past injuries, with him dropping about 10 lbs b/c of the flu during this draft process, i PRAY that this guy falls to us at #29... and if he doesn't, I am all for doing what it takes to move up as far as the #20-22 pick to grab him.

What really has me psyched on this guy is just his over-all skill set; he has most importantly the smarts, instincts and techniques of a complete football player.

With his ability to cover, we are getting more than jsut a bad ***, polished pass rusher; we are getting an athlete who can drop back to cover and allow MANNY LAWSON to do his 'thang rushing from the other side.

Between him, Lawson, Willis and Thomas, with Justin Smith on the DL helping to collapse the pocket, talk about being able to **** with an Offensive Coordinator and QB's head !

[ninersgold]

LoL, I think it's only fair to expect SOME kind of a flaw when he switches from a position he's played his entire life to LB for a game, don't ya think ?

Man, there are some good OL/WR/NT's we can get in round 2 thru 4, but there is no other player I'd love to have in the 1st round than this guy. Probably even more so than Vernon Gholston or Chris Long. YES, I said it.

With scouts being super butt-tight about past injuries, with him dropping about 10 lbs b/c of the flu during this draft process, i PRAY that this guy falls to us at #29... and if he doesn't, I am all for doing what it takes to move up as far as the #20-22 pick to grab him.

What really has me psyched on this guy is just his over-all skill set; he has most importantly the smarts, instincts and techniques of a complete football player.

With his ability to cover, we are getting more than jsut a bad ***, polished pass rusher; we are getting an athlete who can drop back to cover and allow MANNY LAWSON to do his 'thang rushing from the other side.

Between him, Lawson, Willis and Thomas, with Justin Smith on the DL helping to collapse the pocket, talk about being able to **** with an Offensive Coordinator and QB's head !

I :pray: we get that kid, he could be our pass rushing answer for years to come and on top of that we already have Willis Lawson, Thomas needs to show himself in preseason b4 I judge him, our LBs would be amazing. Smith is good, Issac Sopoaga will probally move to UT, that is alot of stregth for a DE in a 3-4! We will crush whroug o-lines, and our secondary would look a lot better and show what our secondary really is supposed to be.

[badass316]

Groves at #29 :pray:

[majesstik1]

With his ability to cover, we are getting more than jsut a bad ***, polished pass rusher; we are getting an athlete who can drop back to cover and allow MANNY LAWSON to do his 'thang rushing from the other side.

Whoa there...I like Groves as much as the next guy, but like I said in my earlier post, he was not good in coverage. He gave up a 1st and a TD on the two passes he was defending in the game I watched him at SLB. It's something he'll need to work on.

[Hobbes2d]

I totally disagree with the Ware comparison.

Groves reminds me of like a Joey Porter or Kamerion Wimbley.

[Mullester]

One question why didn't you also post his Negatives like:
Played linebacker vs. Tennessee Tech, Georgia and Alabama at the end of 2007 season, but struggled with the new rush and pass concepts (needs to convince scouts he can adapt to his new role as a hybrid OLB/DE).

[SB49er4life]

One question why didn't you also post his Negatives like:
Played linebacker vs. Tennessee Tech, Georgia and Alabama at the end of 2007 season, but struggled with the new rush and pass concepts (needs to convince scouts he can adapt to his new role as a hybrid OLB/DE).

Because I didn't feel any of the negatives were anything major that caused any red flags.

And also because you are only supposed to post PARTS of the article, not the entire thing.

Unless you are like top 2-3 prospects in your entire draft class, there is going to be a paragraph of flaws by scouts whose job it is to absolutely nit-pick you. You have to look at the severity of the flaws, because if you read it, a lot of it is the same stuff in different words.

What I got from his "negatives" were a result of a lack of experience and maybe a touch up on technique; there's no indication that there are things at the NFL level that he is incapable of doing.

Seriously, what do you expect from the guy ? To play a position he's never played before in his life for 1 game, and to dominate in area's that he's not used to doing ? I mean, that's a criticism of Hitler-esque proportions. '

If go through and read both the Positves and the Negatives, you'll see that a lot of the negatives are actually contradicted by statements and analysis of his strengths.

The "weaknesses" in his game are no more serious than the "weaknesses" of our very own Patrick Willis last year -- don't you remember hearing the same junk about "He can't cover, he can't get off blocks" ? That's what nit-picking does for you.

[SB49er4life]

Whoa there...I like Groves as much as the next guy, but like I said in my earlier post, he was not good in coverage. He gave up a 1st and a TD on the two passes he was defending in the game I watched him at SLB. It's something he'll need to work on.

Naturally; I don't think there has EVER been a DE-OLB convert that we haven't had to question his abiliity to drop back and cover.

Manny Lawson was supposed to excel as a PRS first, and improve coverage down the road... which has turned out to be quite the opposite.

You watch more Auburn games than I do Maj, did they ever use him to drop back in coverage other than those 2 plays when he was a LB against Tennessee Tech ?

I take the same stand on Groves' as I did with Lawson and Willis; as long as they have physical skills, head for the game, discipline and hunger to get better at something, they WILL.

You remember all the talk about Patrick Willis allegedly being garbage in coverage; and while he IS a rare exception, it still proves that ability + desire + good coaching yields excellent results.

Patrick Willis and Manny Lawson both had major question marks' coming in in regards to their cover skills, and both have made ENORMOUS strides thanks to a crazy athleticism, drive, and the tutelage of Mike Singletary.

[WiltonDeportes]

I like Avril better for his ability to cover. In the limited time i have seen Groves drop back and move around (he didn't workout at the combine and theres little gametape online) i think he his hips are a little tight. Avril seems to be more fluid and more agile. Avril doesn't have any polish as far as pass rush moves, but those can be taught. I'd rather have Avril in the second round and take better advantage of our first rounder.

[WiltonDeportes]

I totally disagree with the Ware comparison.

Groves reminds me of like a Joey Porter or Kamerion Wimbley.

Ya i agree. I definitly see some Joey Porter in him, but I think Wimbley is a better talent.

[WiltonDeportes]

Naturally; I don't think there has EVER been a DE-OLB convert that we haven't had to question his abiliity to drop back and cover.

Manny Lawson was supposed to excel as a PRS first, and improve coverage down the road... which has turned out to be quite the opposite.

You watch more Auburn games than I do Maj, did they ever use him to drop back in coverage other than those 2 plays when he was a LB against Tennessee Tech ?

I take the same stand on Groves' as I did with Lawson and Willis; as long as they have physical skills, head for the game, discipline and hunger to get better at something, they WILL.

You remember all the talk about Patrick Willis allegedly being garbage in coverage; and while he IS a rare exception, it still proves that ability + desire + good coaching yields excellent results.

Patrick Willis and Manny Lawson both had major question marks' coming in in regards to their cover skills, and both have made ENORMOUS strides thanks to a crazy athleticism, drive, and the tutelage of Mike Singletary.

Lawson showed very good hips and has been a stud in coverage. Willis got burnt many times this year and that is still his weak point.

Groves can be a solid coverman because of his speed and solid agility, he doesnt have the hips/change of direction of Avril.

I think adding Avril to the opposite side of Lawson would allow Lawson to blitz more because we could have a man of good coverage skills on the opposite side. Adding Groves would give us a good pass rusher, but would still probably limit Lawson to coverage more often than not.

[nikkayeah]

avril has elite speed, quickness, and an explosive burst. i think he is actually faster than groves and has the experience to play lb. imo, avril's ceiling is higher than groves', but u can't go wrong with either

[ninerlicious]

reading that profile was extremely torturous. groves is not going to fall to us, and it hurts really, really bad. if by some miracle we're able to draft him, i don't even know what i'll do other than be completely elated!

[majesstik1]

You watch more Auburn games than I do Maj, did they ever use him to drop back in coverage other than those 2 plays when he was a LB against Tennessee Tech ?

He was in coverage several times. I was just citing the 2 times the ball came his way in the air. It wasn't the Tenn Tech game I saw, it was either the UGA or Bama game, I looked in the 'Observations' threads, but I didn't see it in those. I posted about it one of the threads back then, now I can't find it.

[nikkayeah]

reading that profile was extremely torturous. groves is not going to fall to us, and it hurts really, really bad. if by some miracle we're able to draft him, i don't even know what i'll do other than be completely elated!

if groves doesn't fall, we will get avril

[SB49er4life]

Lawson showed very good hips and has been a stud in coverage. Willis got burnt many times this year and that is still his weak point.

Groves can be a solid coverman because of his speed and solid agility, he doesnt have the hips/change of direction of Avril.

I think adding Avril to the opposite side of Lawson would allow Lawson to blitz more because we could have a man of good coverage skills on the opposite side. Adding Groves would give us a good pass rusher, but would still probably limit Lawson to coverage more often than not.

Willis starting looking like a stud in coverage towards the end of the season.

He started to do an excellent job of re-route TE's off the line and even getting his hands on some passes.

Coverage is a "weakness" for Patrick Willis by mere default because it's just not as advanced as the other areas of his game.

Also depends on what you consider "burnt"; I don't care who you are, in the NFL you get beat on plays. I saw Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher and a lot of other premiere LB's get get "burnt" this year... you are going against the best in the world, sometimes you get got.

Even then, I can't think of any plays where Patrick Willis ****ed up so bad that it resulted in an enormous play for the offense.

I can, however, think of several different plays that will never show up in the stat sheet, but have an enormous impact in coverage, i.e. the hit he put on Hines Ward that broke his ribs and rendered him useless the rest of the game and the next week.

And Lawson was every bit of a question mark in pass coverage coming out; we were all crossing our fingers and hoping that his speed/size would translate to coverage on the field.

That is half the reason why he was considered a "project" OLB.

[ninerlicious]

if groves doesn't fall, we will get avril

and not a bad consolation prize i suppose... especially if we can get one of the better OTs in the first.

[nikkayeah]

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/cliff-avril?id=1330

his scouting report makes him sound like an excellent fit

[Rexi]

Man, these scouting reports are impressive SB49er4life....Is that where you acquired your vast knowledge of Torry Holt and Derek Smith from?

[DavisNiner]

Willis starting looking like a stud in coverage towards the end of the season.

He started to do an excellent job of re-route TE's off the line and even getting his hands on some passes.

Coverage is a "weakness" for Patrick Willis by mere default because it's just not as advanced as the other areas of his game.

Also depends on what you consider "burnt"; I don't care who you are, in the NFL you get beat on plays. I saw Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher and a lot of other premiere LB's get get "burnt" this year... you are going against the best in the world, sometimes you get got.

Even then, I can't think of any plays where Patrick Willis ****ed up so bad that it resulted in an enormous play for the offense.

I can, however, think of several different plays that will never show up in the stat sheet, but have an enormous impact in coverage, i.e. the hit he put on Hines Ward that broke his ribs and rendered him useless the rest of the game and the next week.

And Lawson was every bit of a question mark in pass coverage coming out; we were all crossing our fingers and hoping that his speed/size would translate to coverage on the field.

That is half the reason why he was considered a "project" OLB.

I think in both the 2nd Cardinals game and the 1st Rams game he got turned around in the endzone and allowed touchdowns. I'm not saying your analysis is wrong, I just happened to remember those plays when I read that sentence. But I agree that his coverage improved by the end of the season.

[Iceburnztt]

Why do i have a feeling that our 1st rnder next year is going to be dealt for some reason?

[belgium49er]

looks to me that groves is a better pass rusher and avril

[SB49er4life]

I think in both the 2nd Cardinals game and the 1st Rams game he got turned around in the endzone and allowed touchdowns. I'm not saying your analysis is wrong, I just happened to remember those plays when I read that sentence. But I agree that his coverage improved by the end of the season.

Well, I didn't say he was perfect in coverage. I would bet that any LB in the game gave up several significant pass plays throughout the course of the year.

But people (not you) make it seem as if coverage is some kinda glaring weakness where you could sit back and pick apart the 49ers' pass defense because Patrick Willis was this major liability.

By mid-season, WR's didn't wanna come across the middle for the first time in years agains the 49ers because of #52. Chad Johnson, a self-promoter and notorious trash-talker of opposing defenders had nothing but the highest praises to sing for the kid.

[DavisNiner]

Well, I didn't say he was perfect in coverage. I would bet that any LB in the game gave up several significant pass plays throughout the course of the year.

But people (not you) make it seem as if coverage is some kinda glaring weakness where you could sit back and pick apart the 49ers' pass defense because Patrick Willis was this major liability.

By mid-season, WR's didn't wanna come across the middle for the first time in years agains the 49ers because of #52. Chad Johnson, a self-promoter and notorious trash-talker of opposing defenders had nothing but the highest praises to sing for the kid.

I agree. It is ridiculous to think a 240+ linebacker can cover a Wr for any extended period of time. But overall Willis did alright. I think everyone here was a little spoiled by all the other aspects of his game, and even by the coverage abilities Lawson displayed, and set the bar extremely high for Willis.

I can't wait till next season when we get to watch those two swarm around the field together.

[spencer49er]

avril has elite speed, quickness, and an explosive burst. i think he is actually faster than groves and has the experience to play lb. imo, avril's ceiling is higher than groves', but u can't go wrong with either
Clift Avril (Perdue) / Quentin Groves (Auburn) / Dontarrious Thomas (Perdue)
At the Combine & Pro days:
Height: 6027 / 6'3”/ 6024; Weight: 253 / 259 / 241
Date of Birth: 04/08/1986 - 07/05/1984 - 09/02/1980
Speed to play in space is measured at the combine with 3-Cone Drill: 6.90 / 7.31 / -
40 yrd: 4.51 / 4.53 / 4.57; 20 yrd: 2.58 / 2.62 / 2.74; 10 yrd: 1.50 / 1.57 / 1.63;
Broad Jump: 9'09” / 10' / 10'09”; Bench Rep: 27 / 30 / 25;
Vert: 36.5P / 35P / 38.5; 20yd Shut: 4.31P / 4.42 / 4.03;

[nikkayeah]

Clift Avril (Perdue) / Quentin Groves (Auburn) / Dontarrious Thomas (Perdue)
At the Combine & Pro days:
Height: 6027 / 6'3”/ 6024; Weight: 253 / 259 / 241
Date of Birth: 04/08/1986 - 07/05/1984 - 09/02/1980
Speed to play in space is measured at the combine with 3-Cone Drill: 6.90 / 7.31 / -
40 yrd: 4.51 / 4.53 / 4.57; 20 yrd: 2.58 / 2.62 / 2.74; 10 yrd: 1.50 / 1.57 / 1.63;
Broad Jump: 9'09” / 10' / 10'09”; Bench Rep: 27 / 30 / 25;
Vert: 36.5P / 35P / 38.5; 20yd Shut: 4.31P / 4.42 / 4.03;
sounds good to me

[spencer49er]

avril has elite speed, quickness, and an explosive burst. i think he is actually faster than groves and has the experience to play lb. imo, avril's ceiling is higher than groves', but u can't go wrong with either
Whether Groves is still available at 29th pick may decide.

The question is, do the 49ers want an immediate starter or
a player they may become better in a couple years (note! Birth Dates)?

I think Nolan would want an immediate starter.

Who has the say in the Niner Org.?

[ninerlicious]

It seems that Groves is the MB fav and perfect fit...so if he's this yr "AC" than who is this yr "Willis"...

it doesn't work like that. besides, willis was most definitely the MB favorite last year.

[9ernation94]

I found some more on groves thought I would share.

29. SAN FRANCISCO 49'ERS (f/IND)
QUENTIN GROVES DE | Auburn | Scouting Report

Picking this low after such an awful season must be a tough pill to swallow but that is reason #1,567,811 why you should think long and hard about trading away those future #1's. What the 49'ers need more than anything is a true impact wide receiver but it's unlikely they'll be able to find a guy like that here and they will probably hope that new offensive coordinator Mike Martz can get more out of the guys they already have on hand. The Niners have to upgrade their pass rush and even though Quentin Groves played defensive end in college he is a fantastic athlete who ran a 4.5 at the Scouting Combine and would be an ideal fit at outside linebacker in their 34 scheme.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft2.html

[Gof the Gij]

Dear God, please let us draft Quentin Groves.

[SB49er4life]

Clift Avril (Perdue) / Quentin Groves (Auburn) / Dontarrious Thomas (Perdue)
At the Combine & Pro days:
Height: 6027 / 6'3”/ 6024; Weight: 253 / 259 / 241
Date of Birth: 04/08/1986 - 07/05/1984 - 09/02/1980
Speed to play in space is measured at the combine with 3-Cone Drill: 6.90 / 7.31 / -
40 yrd: 4.51 / 4.53 / 4.57; 20 yrd: 2.58 / 2.62 / 2.74; 10 yrd: 1.50 / 1.57 / 1.63;
Broad Jump: 9'09” / 10' / 10'09”; Bench Rep: 27 / 30 / 25;
Vert: 36.5P / 35P / 38.5; 20yd Shut: 4.31P / 4.42 / 4.03;

Cliff Avril doesn't strike me as more than anything but another Parys Haralson type; probably will be a decent player, but nothing you don't see on most NFL teams.

[SB49er4life]

I have learned that your knowledge on college prospects is.... well.... suspect to be nice.

Hey, I'll admit that I haven't been as up to speed on the prospects coming out this year as I was the 2 years prior.

But Whatever you wanna say, man. The majority of the players that I've advocated in the last couple drafts have turned out to be pretty **** nice players.

And you are basing your judgement on players who haven't even been DRAFTED, let alone played a down in the NFL, so it's not as if I proved to be way off base with the guys I like coming out this year.

So if your criteria of me evaluating talent is based on agreeing with everything you say, then so be it. I got a few grains left in the salt shaker.

[nikkayeah]

Cliff Avril doesn't strike me as more than anything but another Parys Haralson type; probably will be a decent player, but nothing you don't see on most NFL teams.

why because he's not receiving as much hype as groves or harvey?

[Showme9er]

No need to move up, he will be there at #29

[WiltonDeportes]

Cliff Avril doesn't strike me as more than anything but another Parys Haralson type; probably will be a decent player, but nothing you don't see on most NFL teams.

Avril is definitly quicker and more agile than Haralson. Hes also 3 inches taller. Haralson has good power for a linebacker, but IMO hes not athletic enough to be a stud. I like him as a 3rd OLB and you need lots of linebacker depth in a 3-4. Also, he could challenge for the TED spot possibly. He atleast has the body for it. And, that would give us 3 former ends at linebacker plus Patrick Willis.

[nikkayeah]

harvey>groves

[Showme9er]

No he won't he's the best pure pass rusher in the NFL.


He will be gone by pick 29.

I'm not seeing many mock drafts that have him going before 29.

[Gof the Gij]

No he won't he's the best pure pass rusher in the NFL.


He will be gone by pick 29.

Getting a little ahead of yourself :laugh:

I think you mean in the draft :hoppy:

[nikkayeah]

he's projected to go late first-early second

[Gof the Gij]

He WAS projected to go late first-early second and then logical reasoning happened.

[pogoowner]

harvey>groves

In the 4-3, definitely. It's hard to say who'd be better as an OLB, though.

[spencer49er]

Cliff Avril doesn't strike me as more than anything but another Parys Haralson type; probably will be a decent player, but nothing you don't see on most NFL teams.

Height: 6012 Rated number 12 out of 142 DE's
Weight: 253
40-yr: 4.80
20-yr: 2.86
10-yr: 1.72
Bench reps: 24
Vert: 32
Broad jump: 09'07"
20-shut: 4.28
3-cone: 7.38

Not even close....

[Hobbes2d]

Height: 6012 Rated number 12 out of 142 DE's
Weight: 253
40-yr: 4.80
20-yr: 2.86
10-yr: 1.72
Bench reps: 24
Vert: 32
Broad jump: 09'07"
20-shut: 4.28
3-cone: 7.38

Not even close....

Except he is.

[nikkayeah]

avril is a MUCH much better athlete than haralson and he's bigger too. imo, his speed and burst is elite

[spencer49er]

In the 4-3, definitely. It's hard to say who'd be better as an OLB, though.

Derrick Harvey's Scouting Report:
"A prototypical 43 defensive end and might be able to play outside linebacker in a 34 scheme as well.."
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/derrickharvey.html

"Harvey might be too tall to shift to outside linebacker at the next level, but there is no question that he has the speed to play there."
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/derrick-harvey?id=762

Quentin Groves Scouting Report:
"His best fit might come in a 3-4 scheme..."
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/quentingroves.html

" He is a perfect fit for a hybrid outside linebacker/rush end position in a 3-4 defensive scheme."
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/quentin-groves?id=240

[spencer49er]

Except he is.
You say the speed is close?
4.80 close to 4.53 (40)

Or the college sack numbers.... Or...
If 49ers draft Groves, than they're on the same team,

Groves would be starting at ROLB and Haralson would still be
backing up Manny Lawson.

[Niner Dude]

I like Groves alot...I wouldn't go as far to say that he's like Ware, but he does have some potential at the 3-4 SLB. My only problem with him is he's a workout warrior...hate that term.

Bottom line, we need OL in a big way. If you look back at the coaching resume of Martz, his QBs take just way too many hits. In fact, I was just watching the replay of the Tenn-Rams Super Bowl...and that Ram team had a "good" OL, and Kurt Warner was just getting his clock cleaned.

Bulger took too many hits, and Kitna was so badly rattled that he believed the Lions were a playoff team?!

If Otah is there, jump on em. I think our first 4 rounds should be deticated to OL and WR. LB is a strong position on our team, and from what news I have heard, Lawson will be back at 100%, and now there are rumors of Spikes? We're fine at LB...but if we don't get OL help, we'll be right where we were last year...on eBay looking for washed up QBs to fill in.

[spencer49er]

I like Groves alot...I wouldn't go as far to say that he's like Ware, but he does have some potential at the 3-4 SLB. My only problem with him is he's a workout warrior...hate that term.

Bottom line, we need OL in a big way. If you look back at the coaching resume of Martz, his QBs take just way too many hits. In fact, I was just watching the replay of the Tenn-Rams Super Bowl...and that Ram team had a "good" OL, and Kurt Warner was just getting his clock cleaned.

Bulger took too many hits, and Kitna was so badly rattled that he believed the Lions were a playoff team?!

If Otah is there, jump on em. I think our first 4 rounds should be deticated to OL and WR. LB is a strong position on our team, and from what news I have heard, Lawson will be back at 100%, and now there are rumors of Spikes? We're fine at LB...but if we don't get OL help, we'll be right where we were last year...on eBay looking for washed up QBs to fill in.
If Otah is there
Almost every mock draft has "Otah" taken by the 29th. Not so with Groves.
LB is a strong position on our team
Did we have a Pass Rush last year? Manny is only ONE rusher on ONE side.
A 3-4 defense is only effective when the rush is not obvious
- it can come from multiple sources. 49ers need a second (side) rusher.

There are a lot of good OLs in this draft that can wall off a pass rush coming AT our QB.
There are NOT a lot of pass rush, 3-4 OLBs that can come in and start immediately.
Out side of Groves I think only Cliff Avril has the skill set to do it effectively.
Some will debate that Avril will need a year or two of seasoning to be effective.
Many will throw out a 4-3 type of player to inflate the numbers.
Many others will just argue that all the "starter", 3-4 OLBs be gone by the 29th or 39th pick so .....

The 49ers have said that our Offensive Line is not a concern and will be addressed in this draft.
Let's hope a quality pass rushing ROLB is drafted by us in the 29th or 39th spots.
Good news:
"Scot McCloughan attended Auburn defensive end/linebacker's Quinten Groves's pro day."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/index?

[ManCans]

Whoa there...I like Groves as much as the next guy, but like I said in my earlier post, he was not good in coverage. He gave up a 1st and a TD on the two passes he was defending in the game I watched him at SLB. It's something he'll need to work on.I'm not too worried about his coverage skills. He'd play WOLB in our scheme, and he would probably only drop back into coverage 4 -5 times per game. My problem with Groves has always been his inability to set the edge in the run game. I think he'd be best as a Tampa-2 RDE, where his main responsibility would be to rush the quarterback, and he wouldn't be asked to stack and shed too much.

[ninersgold]

All rookies moving from DE to OLB are going to struggle their first season with coverages. It happens to all rookie 3-4 OLBs. Luckily we have two amazing LB coaches (I include Manusky as a LB coach). Mike Singeletary teaches everything and is very strict on coverage for LBs. Manusky coached Shaun Philpips and Shawne Merriman two very good OLBs one is amazing the other good. I'm sure that if Groves came here the process of learning passing coverages would be sped up very quickly. Besides the fact that ROLBs do not drop back often, LOLBs do. LOLB Lawson drops into coverage more often than he blitzes and ROLBs blitz more often than drop back into coverage. That is just the way it is. :secret:

Groves fits us perfectly, and the rumor now is we might trade our 2nd round pick up to make sure we get Groves. I'm just hoping he falls to us like many mocks project.

[Pjenkins]

Groves, and Avril are moving up on draft boards, at this point their is no doubt Groves is a 1st rounder its just a matter of how late he goes it will either be the Jaguars or the niners. Avril probably isnt as good as a fit as Marcus Howard for a second rd pick, the niners need a pass rusher not someone who is good in coverage and a decent pass rusher, Howard is a better pass rusher than Avril. Howard needs to work on his coverage skills but playing a ROLB in a 3-4 doesnt require the greatest coverage skills.

[SB49er4life]

Avril is definitly quicker and more agile than Haralson. Hes also 3 inches taller. Haralson has good power for a linebacker, but IMO hes not athletic enough to be a stud. I like him as a 3rd OLB and you need lots of linebacker depth in a 3-4. Also, he could challenge for the TED spot possibly. He atleast has the body for it. And, that would give us 3 former ends at linebacker plus Patrick Willis.

I'm not comparing them by how they actually physically match up, I meant in terms of effectiveness in the NFL.

I just don't see Avril being a stud pass rusher in the NFL.

We don't need a "solid" OLB who is a decent pass rusher, we need somebody that can bring fire 'n brimstone off the edge.

I'm not one of those guys who claims to predict the future, and you guys have probably seen more of Avril than I have, so I'm not gonna sit here and say the guy has no chance of being a great OLB.

I'm just saying that I personally don't see anything that special about him. If we draft him and not Groves, I will cross my fingers and pray that you guys' are right and I am wrong.

[SB49er4life]

I like Groves alot...I wouldn't go as far to say that he's like Ware, but he does have some potential at the 3-4 SLB. My only problem with him is he's a workout warrior...hate that term.

Bottom line, we need OL in a big way. If you look back at the coaching resume of Martz, his QBs take just way too many hits. In fact, I was just watching the replay of the Tenn-Rams Super Bowl...and that Ram team had a "good" OL, and Kurt Warner was just getting his clock cleaned.

Bulger took too many hits, and Kitna was so badly rattled that he believed the Lions were a playoff team?!

If Otah is there, jump on em. I think our first 4 rounds should be deticated to OL and WR. LB is a strong position on our team, and from what news I have heard, Lawson will be back at 100%, and now there are rumors of Spikes? We're fine at LB...but if we don't get OL help, we'll be right where we were last year...on eBay looking for washed up QBs to fill in.

When they compare prospects to current players in the league, they are just trying to put the prospects style/skills in a nut-shell; it doesn't necessarily mean they are predicting the prospect will be EXACTLY as good as who they are comparing him to.

The terme work-out warrior pertain to guys that have amazing measureables/weight room strength, but aren't very good on the field. If you watch Groves play and read through his scouting profile, you'll see that he has excellent football skills, technique, and instincts.

The more I think about it, the more I am against taking an OL in the 1st round; it doesn't make sense when I feel we can grab one in the 2nd round and have basically no drop off in talent.

I'd love Otah, but I doubt he drops that far. That boy looks MEAN.

[SB49er4life]

All rookies moving from DE to OLB are going to struggle their first season with coverages. It happens to all rookie 3-4 OLBs. Luckily we have two amazing LB coaches (I include Manusky as a LB coach). Mike Singeletary teaches everything and is very strict on coverage for LBs. Manusky coached Shaun Philpips and Shawne Merriman two very good OLBs one is amazing the other good. I'm sure that if Groves came here the process of learning passing coverages would be sped up very quickly. Besides the fact that ROLBs do not drop back often, LOLBs do. LOLB Lawson drops into coverage more often than he blitzes and ROLBs blitz more often than drop back into coverage. That is just the way it is. :secret:

Groves fits us perfectly, and the rumor now is we might trade our 2nd round pick up to make sure we get Groves. I'm just hoping he falls to us like many mocks project.

Thank you !!

There has never been a prospect going from DE to OLB who was considered polished in coverage for obvious reasons that don't need explaining.

Did you really read that rumor ? Do you have a link for it ?

[majesstik1]

...the rumor now is we might trade our 2nd round pick up to make sure we get Groves.

:link:

[Gof the Gij]

I'm not too sure how I'd feel about trading our second, but if we could move our third and a player to move up and get Groves, I'd be all for it.

[R62NV]

I do believe that groves is a first round talent and is the player the 9ers should be targeting. However, since we draft at 29, it is very likely that he is gone before our choice. Looking at the teams that could possibly take him ahead of us, there's Dallas where he'd be a good fit but OLB is not a need. SD right before them is a 3-4 team but also doesn't need an OLB. Jacksonville could possibly take him. they love Def in the 1st round but if Campbell falls to them then I see them taking him over Groves. They could be a dark horse to watch for though. The Steelers worry me because they love LB's. He'd be a great fit there too. BUT, they drafted a 1st round LB last year in Timmons and took Lamar Woodley out of Michigan who had a great year. And then we have Washington. I don't know what to make of Washington with their new coach Jim Zorn. They could go anywhere with this pick.

If we were to trade up...I'd say wait until he get's to atleast 23, then make a trade with the Steelers or the Titans to move up 6 spots. I'd only give up a 4th rounder to move up, or a 3rd next year. I see Nolan possibly giving up a pick next year b/c he might not be around next year to lose it.

[RandG Bleeder]

To me it would depend on who we see as the passrushing LB. If it is Lawson then I say we draft a Campbell to go opposite of Smith and provide size and power for Lawson to slingshot from. If we want Groves, then I think in the 2nd or 3rd we would need a DE with SIZE to protect our LBs.

[kootenay 49er]

Real good pass rushers are hard to find. I haven't seen Groves play but his scouting reports tell me he is the second best OLB this year in the draft. We can take a OT in the second round as the best 3 will be gone and the drop-off from them is significant.:bigboss:

[Tracker]

I would be totally happy with either Quentin Groves or Branden Albert in R1.

[nikkayeah]

Real good pass rushers are hard to find. I haven't seen Groves play but his scouting reports tell me he is the second best OLB this year in the draft. We can take a OT in the second round as the best 3 will be gone and the drop-off from them is significant.:bigboss:

who is the best then?

[Gof the Gij]

I think I'm the only one on this board who isn't :dootdoot: for Branden Albert.

[majesstik1]

I think I'm the only one on this board who isn't :dootdoot: for Branden Albert.

I like Albert as a prospect, but I'd prefer we went after a RT. That, and I suspect he'll be long gone before we pick...as will Groves.

[Pjenkins]

who is the best then?
Derrick Harvey is the best pass rusher in this years draft the niners are looking at him as well but he will not be available at 29, at the latest he would go to Jacksonville at 26.

[kootenay 49er]

The best OLB rushing the passer is Vernon Gholston-Ohio State in this year's draft.