Keith Rivers

[majesstik1]

I see him ranked pretty high on web sites. I see people here talk about him like he's a can't miss prospect. Yet, every time I watched him play (4 games this season), he was thoroughly unimpressive, and failed to stand out over anyone else on the team. He looked ordinary to me, only making tackles when the play came to him. He doesn't rush the passer, he seemed good in coverage, but he was also usually covering a slower player. He doesn't drive ball carriers backwards, just kind of wraps up and falls with them. His instincts didn't look special either. He would react once it was obvious where the play was going.

These were all things I had noticed throughout this year...and last night I sat down and re-watched the USC/Ore game, and kept an eye on him the whole time...he did nothing of significance. So, I ask, what is it about Rivers that people are so in love with? He looks like any other mid round prospect to me. What's so special about him? The number he wore? Seriously, I don't see it with him.

[Bdogg]

I can agree with that. In the recent studying I have done, he was someone that just did not seem worthy of his projection. Of course this is from reading stats and not actually watching him.

[rathman53]

I think it was because of that Rose Bowl game, I hadnt heard much of him before that, then all of a sudden he was a top 15 pick, he had a good game but so did alot of USC players..........

[beasley for pres]

when I watched USC all I saw was Rey Maualuga

[roleplay3r1]

He is very athletic...but I was never that impressed with him.

[49ers Ephon]

no sacks his senior season?

[49ersRus]

I hate to admit it, but I was a bit surprised he has been ranked as high as he is.

USC has a great LB coach, and all 3 starting LB's for us have been great. Out of the three, Cushing is supposed to be the best, but he was hurt for a good part of the season. Maualuga has really stepped up this year. Which put Rivers as probably the 3rd best on the team. Although he has been solid all year long, and has made plays.

Oregon is not the game to watch, as most of our D played poorly that game. You might want to watch the Rose Bowl, or some of the other games we played. I think he played well against Arizona State. You might want to watch the Cal game as well. Oregon would be the low water mark.

In his favor, I look at this draft, and I don't know that he has much competition for a 43 OLB. I never watched him that closely, as I didn't think he was a good fit for a 34 team.

[WiltonDeportes]

I see him ranked pretty high on web sites. I see people here talk about him like he's a can't miss prospect. Yet, every time I watched him play (4 games this season), he was thoroughly unimpressive, and failed to stand out over anyone else on the team. He looked ordinary to me, only making tackles when the play came to him. He doesn't rush the passer, he seemed good in coverage, but he was also usually covering a slower player. He doesn't drive ball carriers backwards, just kind of wraps up and falls with them. His instincts didn't look special either. He would react once it was obvious where the play was going.

These were all things I had noticed throughout this year...and last night I sat down and re-watched the USC/Ore game, and kept an eye on him the whole time...he did nothing of significance. So, I ask, what is it about Rivers that people are so in love with? He looks like any other mid round prospect to me. What's so special about him? The number he wore? Seriously, I don't see it with him.

He has DB like hips and feet which is good for coverage, but bad at the point of attack. He's not very big in the lower half, but he has good enough momentum to meet FBs and guards when he wants to. I think he can be good in a 4-3 cover 2 type defense. Remember how talented USC's d was this year so it is tough to stand out. I havent seen all that much of him but he seems like a solid tackler. He's no top 10 talent but I would take him in the first round.

[Double_L]

when I watched USC all I saw was Rey Maualuga
Agreed. It didn't hurt that the announcers were drooling all over him in the Rose Bowl game. He will continue the tradition of awesome Samoan USC linebackers in the pros!

[majesstik1]

I hate to admit it, but I was a bit surprised he has been ranked as high as he is.

USC has a great LB coach, and all 3 starting LB's for us have been great. Out of the three, Cushing is supposed to be the best, but he was hurt for a good part of the season. Maualuga has really stepped up this year. Which put Rivers as probably the 3rd best on the team. Although he has been solid all year long, and has made plays.

Oregon is not the game to watch, as most of our D played poorly that game. You might want to watch the Rose Bowl, or some of the other games we played. I think he played well against Arizona State. You might want to watch the Cal game as well. Oregon would be the low water mark.

In his favor, I look at this draft, and I don't know that he has much competition for a 43 OLB. I never watched him that closely, as I didn't think he was a good fit for a 34 team.

I saw more than the Oregon game, and Ellis actually played outstanding that day, so not the entire team was a bust. Thomas Williams played well in his minutes in that game too. But back on subject...The USC games I watched this year were: at Oregon, at Cal, at Arizona St and the Rose Bowl. I saw at least 4 or 5 SC games last year too.

He was surrounded by talent, like you said, and not only next to him (Rey and Brian), but in front of him: Ellis, Jackson, Moala. All of those guys got notations in my notebook, yet Rivers was left blank for me. He never did anything that made me take notice. I understand he is a fluid athlete, but as a football player, and a supposed 1st round pick, I just do not see it at all. He's not strong, doesn't have much pass rush ability, so all you're getting is a generic athlete to train into your system when you draft him...those are the types of guys available in Rds 3-5.

I hate to pick on the guy, but I keep seeing him ranked so high places, and I can't figure out what I'm missing.

[Hobbes2d]

I like Thomas Williams better.

[roleplay3r1]

Thomas Williams

:sam: Very underrated.

[WiltonDeportes]

sometimes guys get their stocks inflated because they were touted early on in college. it can be hard for it to go down before the draft if they workout well at the combine (another good example this year is dmac)

[jdicker]

sometimes guys get their stocks inflated because they were touted early on in college. it can be hard for it to go down before the draft if they workout well at the combine (another good example this year is dmac)

Yeah, especially with Rivers. He was the number 1 prospect in Florida when he came out and it was a big deal that he chose USC over the big 3 in Florida.

He hasn't really developed into a Ray Lewis like everyone thought he would be. Good player, but nothing special. Also, he LOOKS like the prototypical LBer. That plays into it.

[Ace Matherton]

I too have had the same thoughts, from a talent perspective i see the whole top 10 prospect thing, from a production perspective i just dont see it. I could easily see him drop to the 20's or 30's. I think he may have benefited from the talent around him more than people are choosing to mention.
He looks like a good LB, but IMO Ryans at draft time looked far better and he too fell to the second.

[majesstik1]

I have to believe the ankle injury is a main reason u don't see the same player as he's been through out his career...he's a physical player and makes plays but he's not as flashy as others on that team...

To me he has the toughness and leadership skills to excel @ ILB...he's no diff than the other players that have came out with ? marks yet have manage to get the job done...

He's by no means a PR threat but has been affective @ it and making plays behind the LOS(prev yrs)...

I don't think he has the high ceiling or physical abilities as Willis...I still think he can have similar success as Beason, Harris, Ryans, and even Lofo early in his career...

To sum it up by now if u don't see it no one is gonna tell/show u something about a player @ this point...I also think if your judging him only off this yr then yeah u might not see the player he's been through out his career...

I remember him from last year, but even then it was just as a mid-round talent.

As far as pass rush and playing on the opp side of the LOS, he only has 5.5 career sacks, 18.5 career stuffs, and 3* QB pressures (*press stat is only over the last 2 years). I don't particularly see that as being 1st round effectiveness.

IMO, he is surrounded by better pro prospects than he is himself, and benefited from that.

[Gof the Gij]

Dan Connor is way better as an LB prospect.

[majesstik1]

Dan Connor is way better as an LB prospect.

Agree.

[Gof the Gij]

Agree.

Dan Connor just looks nasty, with his neck pad thing and black mouthpiece...If I was a RB and looked across the line of scrimmage at this:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/11/11-02-05tdc/11-02-05dsports-06b.jpg

I'd piss myself.

[dab49er]

I don't see it either. I think he'll be a good LBer, but not spectacular. I think he'll go more the career route of #55 Chris Claiborne instead of #55 Junior Seau. Especially if he's unlucky enough to get drafted by Cincy, like some mocks have him.

On a similar note but a different player... what is deal with Beau Bell from UNLV?

I haven't seen him, but I read in some places he's a 3rd-rounder and a bit raw who doesn't like to practice or play hurt. Then I read TSN (which usually is ok) and he's described like the 2nd coming of Patrick Willis. They say he's easily a 1st rounder. What gives?

[Hobbes2d]

I think Dan Conner is way overrated too. Talk about someone who got a bunch of attention because he was surrounded by 2 other highly touted LB's. He'll be a good player, don't get me wrong but I'd never take him in the first round.

[ragde07]

I see Keith Rivers in the Donnie Edwards mold where he won't be too exciting of a player making spectacular plays but a consistent player that will be the rock of any defense. He is not caught out of position too often (although he did get caught out of position in the rose bowl game when mendenhall had his first huge run), which also leads to not having to be spectacular to make the play. Alot of times when linebackers make spectacular plays it was because they were caught out of position and need to make up for it.

See video: Keith Rivershttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXYE-hXNN-c
or
http://nfldraft.rivals.com/video.asp?section=football&pkey=36502&vidtype=college&vidid=32694

[Ace Matherton]

I think Dan Conner is way overrated too. Talk about someone who got a bunch of attention because he was surrounded by 2 other highly touted LB's. He'll be a good player, don't get me wrong but I'd never take him in the first round.

For me that pretty much sums up every LB in this draft with the exception of the DE/OLB 3-4 guys. I just dont see much talent compared to years past.

[SB49er4life]

Keith Rivers flies to the ball, is a sure tackler, can go sideline to sideline and has the athleticism to be an excellent coverage LB.

And for those saying he can't hit... I can't really agree with that. I've seen him put a hurt on plenty offensive players... there's 1 play that comes to mind, but I forget who it was against in '06 where he just leveled the guy on the sideline.

It's easy to get over-shadowed on that USC defense.

I DO think Rey Maualuga is a much better prospect though...

[majesstik1]

On a similar note but a different player... what is deal with Beau Bell from UNLV?

I haven't seen him, but I read in some places he's a 3rd-rounder and a bit raw who doesn't like to practice or play hurt. Then I read TSN (which usually is ok) and he's described like the 2nd coming of Patrick Willis. They say he's easily a 1st rounder. What gives?

I only saw the UNLV/SDSU game this year, but watched him on every play. He is very tight hipped and a terrible coverage guy. He'd be a great Ted in a 34, but I don't like him as a 43 prospect until the 4th round, at best. As a Ted, he might get drafted in the 3rd round area. He's pretty much an attacker, and will get involved in a play, but isn't very athletic.

[Hobbes2d]

I only saw the UNLV/SDSU game this year, but watched him on every play. He is very tight hipped and a terrible coverage guy. He'd be a great Ted in a 34, but I don't like him as a 43 prospect until the 4th round, at best. As a Ted, he might get drafted in the 3rd round area. He's pretty much an attacker, and will get involved in a play, but isn't very athletic.

I don't like Bell at all for any scheme. Saw him play in a couple of games and just don't get why he is rated so highly.

[majesstik1]

I don't like Bell at all for any scheme. Saw him play in a couple of games and just don't get why he is rated so highly.

He's a good downhill type player that gets to the action, but he isn't going to be able to cover anyone in the NFL. He's also going to need to learn the ins and outs of whatever position he's drafted for because he doesn't have the athletic ability to make up for a mistake. He'll be a good thumper for a 34 team, but I don't imagine him doing much else.

[Hobbes2d]

He's a good downhill type player that gets to the action, but he isn't going to be able to cover anyone in the NFL. He's also going to need to learn the ins and outs of whatever position he's drafted for because he doesn't have the athletic ability to make up for a mistake. He'll be a good thumper for a 34 team, but I don't imagine him doing much else.

But even with his size I'm not sure how strong enough he will be to take on blocks. He's basically Derek Smith. :laugh:

[majesstik1]

But even with his size I'm not sure how strong enough he will be to take on blocks. He's basically Derek Smith. :laugh:

That's who came to my mind watching Keith Rivers :ohmy:

BTW - You're two days passed in the draft game...go make your pick :laugh:

[VaSfan4life]

Rivers isn't even the best on his team let alone in the draft. I like him like i used like vilma but even he was overrated. I'm just glad ten other dumbass teams passed on #52 because as you can tell in this draft guys like him dont some around very often. It's been since #51(Real fans know) that we've had teams fear our MLB. I knew after we lost the senior bowl this guys was special. Side-bar #11 from VT is my sleeper outside LB(Reminds me of Derrick Brooks). Vince Hall(#9) could be our thumper beside willis in the later rounds.

[ninersgold]

Hell no, there is no point in getting him. He plays 4-3 defense at MLB or OLB and in the 3-4 he would only be able to play "mike" LB, which would be great...
IF WILLIS WASN'T THERE ALREADY!!!

[majesstik1]

I'm not bringing him up as an option for us. I'm just curious why I've seen him ranked so high on draft sites, and see people here talking about him like he's a legit top 10 prospect. Like I said, I've never seen it.

[49ersforlife5x]

Rivers is really the only good "pure" linebacker in this draft. And I doubt he'll get out of the top 10

[majesstik1]

Rivers is really the only good "pure" linebacker in this draft. And I doubt he'll get out of the top 10

That's nice. Except you're not explaining anything, or proving he is just by saying it.

[Hobbes2d]

Rivers is really the only good "pure" linebacker in this draft. And I doubt he'll get out of the top 10

O rly?

[49ersforlife5x]

There are no other linebackers in this draft that are clearly worth a high pick. Connor is a late first at best. E. Henderson is maybe a 2nd rounder. Mayo is brutally over-rated, Lofton is good, but kinda small and still raw.

[majesstik1]

There are no other linebackers in this draft that are clearly worth a high pick. Connor is a late first at best. E. Henderson is maybe a 2nd rounder. Mayo is brutally over-rated, Lofton is good, but kinda small and still raw.

You're still not telling me anything about Rivers' game. Why is he so good?

[majesstik1]

Why is it such a topic now?...I know its slow but seriously...u don't think he's worth the top pick and wouldn't draft him...we get it...

Because it's been on my mind, and I don't have an answer as to why he gets rated so high. I was seriously hoping someone could give a few examples of what he does that makes him so special. That's where message boards come in handy, if you can't find the answers on your own, you can ask others. So far, the only person who's been able to give me any considerable input is Rus.

Why does this bother you? It is a legit question.

[roleplay3r1]

Why is it such a topic now?...I know its slow but seriously...u don't think he's worth the top pick and wouldn't draft him...we get it...

Poster X says this is why he's a top 10 pick than poster Y tells us why he's not and we're back to the beginning...not trying to be rude but man...

Um....what?

[Rexi]

when I watched USC all I saw was Rey Maualuga

x3.

[majesstik1]

Look, I don't know what's wrong with asking the question. Is Rivers a family member of yours or something? I've never seen you get so pissy until now.

The games I saw of him this year were all post injury, so it could have tainted my analysis of him. In 2006, I was aware of him being a prospect that was in high regard, but he wasn't someone I spent a lot of time looking at or he didn't stand out to me when I did see him. I know we have a large USC fan base here, and I figured one of the knowledgeable Trojan fans could shed some light on this for me.

The 'nagging' posts were directed towards someone who often posts asinine stuff, and never uses tangible evidence to support himself.

As for Kevin Smith, I guess we'll just have to see...

I still don't understand why this thread made you agro :unsure:

[WiltonDeportes]

Basically the NFL is always looking for those extremely athletic weakside type linebackers. He can fly to the ball and will hit people. He has very good potential in coverage with those feet and hips. His weakness may always be that you can run at him and i haven't seen enough of him to talk about his instincts & smarts too much. I think he could be taught to pass rush a little btw because of his quick first step (but you probably dont want this guy blitzing when you could have him as an extra strong safety roaming the middle).

[49ersforlife5x]

You're still not telling me anything about Rivers' game. Why is he so good?

That guy is ridiculously strong for his weight. Good range, great character. The only thing he lacks is straight line speed. And I bet at pro day, he'll erase that doubt too. Same with Lawrence Jackson.