Is Matt Stafford sure fire #1?

[Grigga2122]

I dont think the Lions have a choice but to take him. They havent had a franchise QB as long as I have been alive there only QB's that come to mind are Scott Mitchell, Charlie Batch, the Joey Harrington miss, and Kitna. Its no wonder why they are always bad.

[LottdownD42]

I dont think the Lions have a choice but to take him. They havent had a franchise QB as long as I have been alive there only QB's that come to mind are Scott Mitchell, Charlie Batch, the Joey Harrington miss, and Kitna. Its no wonder why they are always bad.

They have Kitna, Culpepper and Staton under contract.. Personally theres enough experience there for me to go another direction in the first and look to groom a QB with a 2nd or 3rd rounder! Or.. Possibly Josh Freeman at 20! Depending how he looks in workouts!
And there horrible due to Millens amazing ability to draft talent.. esp at WR!

[SBbound49ers]

Im big on Stafford but they have other holes where they need immediate help if they plan on winning a game next year.

[Gof the Gij]

Stafford definitely seems like a possibility, but I wouldn't count out an OL at all either...I'd say most likely Andre Smith or Eugene Monroe.

[SB49er4life]

The Lions' might as well have just kept Matt Millen if they draft Stafford #1.

A project QB first over-all when you 4/5's of your OL and your entire defense outside of 2 guys needs to be replaced? Stupid.

[NinersFanatic]

A project QB first over-all when you 4/5's of your OL and your entire defense outside of 2 guys needs to be replaced? Stupid.

They're setting him up to be Joey Harrington v.2, except the Lions are even worse now than when they drafted Joey.

[49ersRus]

It's either QB or OT. There are 2 QB's and 4 OT's to choose from.

If they get a QB at #1, then they can go OT at #20. However, they have a lot of holes. They might be better off going OT at #1, and a defensive guy at #20.

If I really liked Stafford as a franchise QB, then I think you have to draft him. However, I would probably go OT. It's a safer pick for them, and that organization hasn't won a game in over a year. Plus, the economy sucks in Detroit. OT's are cheaper.

[Gof the Gij]

If I'm Detroit, I go with Eugene Monroe at #1, hope for Peria Jerry or Alphonso Smith at #20, and then get Nate Davis at #33.

[Grigga2122]

You know whati just realized? ...Trading down would be a great idea for them.

[SB49er4life]

They're setting him up to be Joey Harrington v.2, except the Lions are even worse now than when they drafted Joey.

LoL, it's funny because it's true. And Joey Harrington was a better QB coming out of college than Stafford is.

[SB49er4life]

You know whati just realized? ...Trading down would be a great idea for them.

It would be a great idea... if there was a team willing to trade for them. Since there's no "sure fire #1" pick this year that everyone wants, I doubt they'll find a trading partner.

[superman1]

very easily a yes. another Matt Ryan molded QB. everyone knocked Ryan at first, well look at him now.

[majesstik1]

Joey Harrington was a better QB coming out of college than Stafford is.

I don't think Harrington was anywhere near as good as Stafford. Harrington was a system/Tedford QB. Stafford has more natural ability than Joey did, it just needs to be utilized properly. Something UGA didn't really do. Give him a good QB coach and let him sit a year and you have a good bet for a franchise QB. I'm not sure who the DET QB coach is though, so who knows if he'll get that there.

[SB49er4life]

I don't think Harrington was anywhere near as good as Stafford. Harrington was a system/Tedford QB. Stafford has more natural ability than Joey did, it just needs to be utilized properly. Something UGA didn't really do. Give him a good QB coach and let him sit a year and you have a good bet for a franchise QB. I'm not sure who the DET QB coach is though, so who knows if he'll get that there.

Well I'm not talking about whose college system may have better suited them for the pro's, Joey Harrington was a much better player in college.

IDK, you may call it a vague critique, but Stafford doesn't seem to have the natural instincts to be a pocket passing QB. You can only blame so much on poor coaching/utilization, as a QB, you have the ball in your hands and you make the plays.

I'm not saying that he can't be a good NFL QB, I'm just saying that I personally view him as a project that's gonna need a lot of fine tuning before he can be trusted in an NFL game.

He would be a good value for a team like CAR or PHI that have the pieces in place for their to be no pressure on him to be a savior and the talent around him to succeed, but I really, really don't like him as a Top 10 pick.

His best plays are "pretty good", and his worst plays are just atrocious.

[dhimiter]

The Lions could pull a Cleveland Brown move, and draft the best OL guy at 1 and than trade up a little from 20 to early teens if Sanchez is still there. They have a good chunk of picks this year and it would sure up two gapping wholes for them. With the QBs they have Sanchez could sit a year.

[SB49er4life]

very easily a yes. another Matt Ryan molded QB. everyone knocked Ryan at first, well look at him now.

Matt Ryan was a guy that made plays and stepped up in key situations without the best talent around him. He also displayed very good decision making and poise at Boston College... something I haven't seen from Stafford.

Matt Stafford has all the talent around him one could reasonably ask for, and he chokes in big games and against top competition.

Also, a Matt Ryan mistake does not cost his team as much as the type of mistakes you see Stafford making.

And before we go crowning Matt Ryan, please keep in mind that the Falcons' already had a franchise #1 WR, RB, and also drafted a premier OT (Sam Baker) in the 1st round to help him out. He is a good player and proved a lot of people, myself included, wrong, but he was FAR from a lone savior in Atlanta.

[49ersforlife5x]

If I'm Detroit, I go with Eugene Monroe at #1, hope for Peria Jerry or Alphonso Smith at #20, and then get Nate Davis at #33.

That's not a bad idea, I would guess they could get Freeman at 33.

[majesstik1]

so White had 1 good yr out of the 3(he still had question marks as a #1 WR)...

White had his only good year with Ryan at QB, hmmm...:pards:

[majesstik1]

Well I'm not talking about whose college system may have better suited them for the pro's, Joey Harrington was a much better player in college.

IDK, you may call it a vague critique, but Stafford doesn't seem to have the natural instincts to be a pocket passing QB. You can only blame so much on poor coaching/utilization, as a QB, you have the ball in your hands and you make the plays.

I'm not saying that he can't be a good NFL QB, I'm just saying that I personally view him as a project that's gonna need a lot of fine tuning before he can be trusted in an NFL game.

He would be a good value for a team like CAR or PHI that have the pieces in place for their to be no pressure on him to be a savior and the talent around him to succeed, but I really, really don't like him as a Top 10 pick.

His best plays are "pretty good", and his worst plays are just atrocious.

DET has Kitna to play another year while they sit Stafford. He's the best this class has to offer, and DET has a great opportunity to land a QBOFT with that 1st pick. It's a position you don't want to see yourself holding again next year, so might as well get the QB now.

*cue Alex Smith references...

[SB49er4life]

:laugh: so White had 1 good yr out of the 3(he still had question marks as a #1 WR)...Turner was a backup until this yr...and that premier OT only started 5 gms @ LT...his last start was wk 6...the last part u had right it was a group effort for the turn around but dont make those players out to be something they werent...they all look to be future staters for Atl after this yr...

Roddy White was a 1k WR before Matt Ryan ever came into town, buddy. But nobody heard about him because he was playing on a ****ty team with a bunch of off-field problems that were the main headlines.

Michael Turner was viewed a franchise caliber RB long before he came to Atlanta... that's why he was so highly sought after as a FA. It just so happened that he was playing behind arguably the greatest RB ever in San Diego. Why else would San Diego spend money franchising a "back up" RB?

Sam Baker didn't play a full season and wasn't as big of a contributor as the other guys, but he was a big part of their offensive success when he was in.

Matt Ryan had a fantastic rookie year, I'm not trying to take anything away from him, but he was also given top notch resources to succeed, something that most teams in rebuilding aren't able to provide.

[travese49]

The thing is they have No defense at all. And their o-line is attrocious. They do have a good receiving core and an ok Rb, but I would stick with Cullpepper and hopefully Stanton can come up for them. I am pretty sure that Kitna will be released. I think their best move would be an o-lineman who can give Cullpepper or Stanton some time to find Calvin Johnson. They drafted Cherilous last year in the 1st and have Riola who is a decent center. So if they get a LT and pick up some guards they have potential to be an alright offense. Their D is the worst in the league by far though. Ernie Sims is really the only guy they have that could do some damage.

[SB49er4life]

so Jerricho Cotchery & Kevin Curtis were Fran WR heading into the 08 season also...both of them like White had their lone 1000 yrd season in 07(with subpar career before that point)...they all had similar seasons yet u claim White was seen as a Fran WR, buddy (<---- that was funny)...one good season doesnt make a WR or any other position a Fran type player...multi seasons does that...and that was what White proved THIS YR...

laugh:

Are you arguing just to argue? Bringing up other WR's doesn't do anything to disprove that Roddy White was a **** good WR even before Matt Ryan got there.

You're REALLY reaching if you're gonna hold his first 2 years in the league against him, considering it's pretty much common knowledge that the WR's don't really bust out until around there 3rd year.

Sorry, if you had watched any of the Falcons games this year, you would have known that Roddy White made big catches, in big moments, and had huge plays after the catch. He is a good WR whether or not Matt Ryan is on the Falcons, regardless of what other irrelevant names of WR's on other teams you wanna throw out there.


I know how Turner was viewed but SD thought he could be good(1000+ yrd 8-10TD) not great(his stats this yr)...and if every knew he was going to turn out the way it seems why couldnt SD get any trade offers for a Fran RB back in the 07 draft? most people thought he could be good but dont act like u knew he was a 1700 yrd 17TD RB...

No, those are the stats YOU thought he was capable of, not anyone else. Seriously, what GM is dumb enough to make guy that he thinks would max out at ~1,000 yds his "franchise" RB? There is nothing impressive about a featured back that barely scrapes 1,000 yds anymore.

I didn't think he would get THAT many yards, but I predict him having a 1,200-1,400 yd year... and getting laughed at.

And you're "well if he's so good, why didn't anyone trade for him?" doesn't work, either, because Franchise Tags are designed to have outrageous asking prices that would all but prevent that player from being able to leave. Franchised playes RARELY get traded for.

look I understand u are sensitive about SC players but dude u need to relax...he was the starting LT for a right handed QB...I think I can figure out he was an important part for them...I never questioned Baker's talent...u said they gave him a premier OT and I'm stating that even when Baker went down ATL was still able to perform quite well without their premier LT...

Now I just don't even know what point you are even trying to make. Sam Baker was drafted in the 1st round, and the team though highly enough of him to trade back into the 1st round to draft him.

Obviously the club views him as a premier player to invest THAT much into him, and when he played, he didn't disappoint.

***Speaking of OT's, why are you so intent on using our #10 pick on a RT, then? Obviously if they are so replaceable, what sense would it make invest that much in them? Funny how they are so valuable when you are lobbying for us to draft one, yet they can be replaced withoug missing a beat?***

[Ness]

I know how Turner was viewed but SD thought he could be good(1000+ yrd 8-10TD) not great(his stats this yr)...and if every knew he was going to turn out the way it seems why couldnt SD get any trade offers for a Fran RB back in the 07 draft? most people thought he could be good but dont act like u knew he was a 1700 yrd 17TD RB...
The amount of yards he ended up with was irrelevant. Actually, it might have been in Atlanta's favor to reduce the carries Turner received to insure his longevity. One could have still predicted him having a good average however. In essence 1,000 yards and 8 to 10 touchdowns is actually very good for a back if they average more than 4 yards a carry.

[SB49er4life]

DET has Kitna to play another year while they sit Stafford. He's the best this class has to offer, and DET has a great opportunity to land a QBOFT with that 1st pick. It's a position you don't want to see yourself holding again next year, so might as well get the QB now.

*cue Alex Smith references...

You called it... that's the attitude that led to the 49ers' reaching for Alex Smith at #1 in 2005 and ultimately his mishandling without the right parts around him.

Detroit has some major issues right now, and IMO, QBOTF can be put on the back-burner until they find some real legit players that you know for sure can step in and give you something to build on.

I also disagree that he is the best QB in the draft. He is all hype, no substance to me, and I respect your opinion and realize you are probably more educated than me on this kinda stuff, but I just haven't seen it from him. To me, he is all potential and little substance.... which adds up to just a foolish use of a #1 pick for an organization that can't afford that kinda risk.

Maybe you are right and Stafford ends up being the real deal, but as a prospect coming in, he is nothing that special where you can't pass up on him and have a similar or better QB in later years draft.

[SB49er4life]

The amount of yards he ended up with was irrelevant. Actually, it might have been in Atlanta's favor to reduce the carries Turner received to insure his longevity. One could have still predicted him having a good average however. In essence 1,000 yards and 8 to 10 touchdowns is actually very good for a back if they average more than 4 yards a carry.

He just likes arguing crazy things with me now because of my theory on why it wouldn't be a bad idea to draft Knowshon Moreno at #10, lol.

[NinerCapHell]

the Lions probably send #20 and a 3rd for Cassell and then trade down within the top 10 from the #1 spot to whomever wants Stafford badly. From there they take the best available LT.

[Ness]

The Lions' might as well have just kept Matt Millen if they draft Stafford #1.

A project QB first over-all when you 4/5's of your OL and your entire defense outside of 2 guys needs to be replaced? Stupid.

No because Millen would have taken a wide receiver. I don't think Stafford is a project quarterback. From what I've witnessed he has all the physical tools to be successful no doubt. I think the most important thing is really how they handle the situation with a young quarterback. Just by grooming Stafford slowly and being patient while not giving in to the fans demands if things start to go sour. In all probability things aren't going to turn around in Detroit overnight. It's going to take some time. If Stafford is selected, I wouldn't be surprised if he just sat the bench the first season.

[PapiChulo81]

I dont think the Lions have a choice but to take him. They havent had a franchise QB as long as I have been alive there only QB's that come to mind are Scott Mitchell, Charlie Batch, the Joey Harrington miss, and Kitna. Its no wonder why they are always bad.

Well, they drafted a heisman trophy winner back in '90. (Andre Ware)

But he did not pan out. Eric Kramer didn't do too hot either.

[Hobbes2d]

They should trade down.

[majesstik1]

They should trade down.

Who would want to move up, and for who?

I think DET is in the same position we were in 2005. There is no clear cut #1 prospect, or enough demand for any of the top tier guys for anyone to want to move up in what could be the last inflated pay scale for a rookie #1 pick.

[roleplay3r1]

Also, a Matt Ryan mistake does not cost his team as much as the type of mistakes you see Stafford making.


Ryan threw 19 INT's his last year at BC. Stafford had 10. I don't see what you're getting at.

[Ness]

if u read it again all u did was agree with me...

No I did not. You were basing Turner's success off of the amount of yards he gained alone, as in purely 1700 yards is better than a 1000 yard season. Which clearly is an illogical angle. I was basing his success off of his averages, not yards gained. A 1000 yard season is just as good as a 1700 yard season if not better due to the less abuse your body is taking. Especially if all you are doing is averaging the same amount of yards gained with a 100 or so more carries. How in the world is that agreeing with you? It wasn't hard to see what Atlanta was getting in Michael Turner. Whether he gained 1000 yards or 1700 yards, he's still the same unique type of player that contributed to the success. The amount of carries he received should have nothing to do with it.

[thedynasty]

Ryan threw 19 INT's his last year at BC. Stafford had 10. I don't see what you're getting at.

Matt Ryan had to carry his team. He didn't have pro prospects around him. He also threw it up 654 times.

[slyman831]

http://warroomreport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ryanleaf.jpg

[sanfranfan22]

the Lions probably send #20 and a 3rd for Cassell and then trade down within the top 10 from the #1 spot to whomever wants Stafford badly. From there they take the best available LT.

Cassell was franchised by the Patriots, so it's doubtful the patriots will move him, even for a #20 and a 3rd. They have so many needs, it would be dumb to give up to day one picks for 1 player. Trade down if possible, but not too much interest from other teams. They will take BPA throughout day 1 and all should start in 09.

[Grigga2122]

Cassell was franchised by the Patriots, so it's doubtful the patriots will move him, even for a #20 and a 3rd.

There's no way that they dont trade him. No one sits and makes 14.5 million on the bench. They used a 3rd round pick on Kevin O'connell last year so they are grooming him. They are just hyping Cassell up so they can get the most value for him.

[SB49er4life]

I'm not...u assumed that as I was giving u reasons to take an RT @ #10...if we dont sign a starter in FA RT is in play in the 1st rd...my #1 choice has always been Rak...

if u read it again all u did was agree with me...


..

Orakpo is looking the best defensive player we could get if he lands, IMO.


not rly...its a MB and if I see something I disagree with I can post on it.

I'm just havin fun with you, man. I don't really care, even though I know I might sound over the top in some of my posts. There would be no point in me coming on here if everyone agreed with everything I said, lol.

[roleplay3r1]

Matt Ryan had to carry his team. He didn't have pro prospects around him. He also threw it up 654 times.

Still, he made almost twice as many "mistakes" as Stafford. On a talent deprived team, wouldn't you think those lost oppurtunities mean a lot?

I get the counter argument, but Stafford only turned the ball over 10 times(not counting fumbles, I don't know those numbers). I don't see how that hurts the team more than Ryan's 19. For every dangerously thrown ball into traffic that Stafford made, he probably had at least one spectacular throw.

[keehner87]

I think they have holes at other places but I think they need someone like Stafford to be the face for that franchise. They haven't had one since Barry retired. I think they need someone like that, not saying that's how they should go.

[SB49er4life]

Still, he made almost twice as many "mistakes" as Stafford. On a talent deprived team, wouldn't you think those lost oppurtunities mean a lot?

I get the counter argument, but Stafford only turned the ball over 10 times(not counting fumbles, I don't know those numbers). I don't see how that hurts the team more than Ryan's 19. For every dangerously thrown ball into traffic that Stafford made, he probably had at least one spectacular throw.

His stats were also padded a lot by having 2 WR's (Massaquoi, Green) that could make circus grabs and were making big things happen after catches.

I also disagree about him making that many "spectacular" throws. He made some nice, text book NFL throws, but I personally didn't see anything that special from him. He also threw a lot of errant passes that were a mile off their target without even any pressure around him.

He also disappeared and played horribly against the 2 best D's he saw this year, and didn't really show a knack for finishing games.